Why Delia Ramirez thinks DHS needs to be dismantled

"Why would we ever want to give them more money to keep doing what they’re doing?"

House of Representative, Office of Delia Ramirez

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Chicago Congresswoman Delia Ramirez is one of the most aggressive critics of ICE in Congress, which is notable given how unpopular the agency has become.

Ramirez has said for months that ICE should be defunded. Since the assault on Minneapolis, she’s gone further, arguing the entire Department of Homeland Security needs to be dismantled.

Ramirez — a member of the Homeland Security Committee in the House — has also been an outspoken critic of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. She first called for Noem to resign last April, only a couple of months after she was sworn into office. She called for her impeachment in December.

These positions were once seen as extreme or as unpopular within the Democratic caucus, and some centrists are still uncomfortable using the phrase “Abolish ICE.”

'Abolish ICE' is imperative

But Democrats have moved dramatically towards Ramirez’s hard-line opposition to Noem and ICE in the last couple months. Even some Republicans have called for Noem to resign following the DHS murder of VA nurse Alex Pretti, and abolishing ICE now has a plurality of public support in some polls.

Since Ramirez has been at the forefront of her caucus and party, we connected with her to discuss the dangers of ICE and the politics of confronting them — including how Democrats need to prepare now for Noem’s impeachment.

Noah Berlatsky

Your district is heavily Latino. How has ICE enforcement affected your constituents?

Delia Ramirez

The majority of Democrats are beginning to understand what I think Chicago has experienced for a long time, which is the terror that is the Department of Homeland Security.

Last September, October, and November, we felt like we were occupied, that there had been an invasion of our state. It was a force of terror that was frightening and appalling, but which also really deeply affected people’s ability to live their lives.

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Yes, they drew down some of the Midway Blitz police operations. But these enforcements are still happening. Two people were taken in my district yesterday, and the reality is that ICE agents are still around. As I knocked on the doors yesterday of small businesses across my district, I talked to people who are feeling numb. They’re afraid. Their lives have been fundamentally changed forever. Their children will have nightmares for years to come. There are people who have not worked for weeks, and now they’re trying to figure out whether they’re going to get evicted.

There are real life consequences for the terror we’ve seen. And that’s why, for me, it’s so important for people to understand that attempting to negotiate minimal changes, or believing that impeaching one secretary is enough — it’s not. ICE will continue to be a threat to our security until we fully dismantle DHS and pour resources back into the communities that are most impacted by the trauma they’ve brought into our neighborhoods.

Noah Berlatsky

Senate Democrats are trying to negotiate some limitations on ICE conduct, like no longer wearing masks and mandating body cameras. Why do you think those reforms are inadequate?

Delia Ramirez

ICE agents don’t care if they’re wearing a body camera. The body camera won’t stop them from killing people because they believe they have qualified immunity, so they can operate with impunity. Some of the things they’re negotiating are so bare minimum that they should have already been the policy of DHS.

Democrats need to call for more than just training. The ICE agents and the Customs and Border Protection agents that have killed folks — they weren’t brand new recruits. They had been with the agency for 10 years. More training is not going to stop the behavior.

What if we just stopped paying taxes?

Look, this agency was formed to operate with impunity under the guise of protecting the homeland from domestic terrorism. It’s why you hear Noem, Stephen Miller, and Trump so quickly refer to victims as domestic terrorists to to justify robbing people of their civil rights, their due process, and their humanity.

So no, a body camera is not enough, and yes, Noem needs to resign. There has to be oversight. The masks do have to come off, but we also have to ask ourselves, fundamentally, why would we ever want to give them more money to keep doing what they’re doing? I believe we need to draw back DHS funding. I think we need to bring to justice the criminals in this fascist administration. And ultimately, we have to abolish ICE and dismantle DHS.

Some people say we can’t get rid of an institution, but didn’t Donald Trump with just a few words in an executive order defund USAID? The reality is we could do it if we wanted to. ICE came to life in 2003, and we were okay before then. We have to have a real conversation about what’s going to stop what we’re seeing on the ground, what’s going to bring people a level of safety. A few reforms are not enough.

Look, when I talked to business owners yesterday — it’s hard to say this, but some of them are so numb, so broken, so afraid. They’re talking about, “I’m going to close my busines by April. I can’t keep taking it. No one is coming in. I am afraid of coming to work. My employees are afraid of coming to work. I don’t want to talk about ICE anymore.” This is the reality of what’s happening to people across the country, whether you’re an immigrant or not. Some of them are US citizens. We have to treat this holistically and some basic response is not going to cut it.

Noah Berlatsky

One of the things that I’ve heard people say is that “abolish ICE” is bad messaging.

Delia Ramirez

Is it?

Noah Berlatsky

I’m asking you! Obviously, you feel like that’s a message that resonates with your district.

Delia Ramirez

Yeah, in my district, 78 percent of my constituents want to abolish ICE. Not reform — abolish.

I think it’s important for people to understand that our constituents on the ground, the ones who are being deeply impacted every day — not the people that live in Washington, not the consultants that make a lot of money telling people in DC what to do — the people on the ground understand that this agency is beyond rotten and beyond reform.

Noah Berlatsky

You’re put forward what you call a MELT ICE act, which would defund ICE and put the money saved towards funding healthcare and housing in communities ICE has targeted. Why do you feel that’s an important policy?

Delia Ramirez

I want to see reparations for the communities most impacted by the campaign of terror we’ve experienced. We know the impact of what they’ve seen and experienced will affect them for years to come. That’s the reality.

We’ve seen the danger in infusing resources into DHS’s abuse of power. Funding for ICE, funding for detention is fuel for human suffering, which is exactly why, to me, this bill is so incredibly important.

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Congress has to send a message that we do not consent, nor are we going to enable DHS and ICE lawlessness anymore. We, Congress, control the purse, and therefore we, Congress, control how money is used. For me, that’s why it’s so important for us to have a real conversation about prohibiting DHS from using our taxpayer dollars to go to Trump’s campaign donors to detain people who are getting sick and dying in cages. We’re going to redirect that money towards communities affected by immigration enforcement.

Across the country, whether you’re polling in a small town or a big city, housing and healthcare are among the top three biggest issues and needs for the people. So, I’m saying redirect this money to wraparound services. Focus on bringing housing and healthcare resources to those communities affected. What would it look like if Congress actually used its power so to actually help people?

Noah Berlatsky

So, you not only want to defund ICE, but you want to talk about DHS funding too — is that right?

Delia Ramirez

I’d like to dismantle it.

Noah Berlatsky

What does dismantling it look like, in your view?

Delia Ramirez

It would mean making FEMA a standalone agency. You heard Trump talk about taking more resources, significant resources from FEMA. They have taken money from FEMA and given it to ICE to kill people. I mean, it’s crazy to see what’s happening, right?

But the point is that FEMA needs to be a standalone agency. The Transportation Security Agency, if we’re going to continue to operate it, should probably be in the Department of Transportation, and US Citizenship and Immigration should probably go back to the Department of Justice.

Kristi Noem's assault on the Fourth Amendment

DHS should no longer operate. It’s a dangerous bureaucratic organization that was formed to be able to justify xenophobia after 9/11, to operate with impunity and get away with it under the guise of protecting us from terrorism. The agency itself must be dismantled, because what you’re seeing on the ground, the idea that CBP can go into Chicago, into Minnesota, it can go into Wisconsin, into Michigan, is because of the way that it’s been empowered under DHS.

There is no “homeland security” under DHS. There’s just a department of terror, and so we should dismantle it completely. Abolishing ICE is a good step forward, but it’s not the whole piece.

Noah Berlatsky

One of the things you’ve also been talking about for some time is trying to get Kristi Noem to resign or to impeach her. I think you first talked about her needing to resign in April 2025.

Delia Ramirez

I’m the very first member of Congress to call for her to resign, when people thought it was too controversial to say it. But I knew what was happening on the ground and what she was doing and getting away with and I called for a resignation in April, and then I hand delivered the resignation letter to her in committee.

I was the very first member to call for her to be impeached. Now my colleagues say what I’ve been saying over and over and over. Eventually, it sticks! She will either resign, get fired, or impeached, but we’ll get rid of her.

But we also need to bring further justice. I know Congresswoman Robin Kelly has introduced articles of impeachment. I have talked to our own leadership, Leader Jeffries and others, about making sure that if Jim Jordan, the chair of the Judiciary Committee, is unwilling to take on the investigation that leads to impeachment, that we start doing it ourselves. We need to make the case and prepare ourselves — maybe even for this year, because perhaps there are enough Republicans finally realizing how incompetent and how dangerous she is. But if not this year, we need to immediately do it next January.

I think it’s important for folks watching this process to know, first of all, if she resigns and isn’t impeached, she could come back and work in public office. And we need to make sure that Kristi Noem never serves in any public office again.

And two, we actually need a trial so that we bring justice for the crimes that have been committed under her watch or have been directly committed by her, which is why I said to Leader Jeffries and others that I don’t think impeachment is a one person job or a political step. We have to start putting together the strategy and then have the Senate to take her to trial.

Noah Berlatsky

I saw Chris Murphy said that he didn’t really think that getting rid of Noem would necessarily be all that helpful, because they would just appoint somebody else who was equally bad. Is that a concern?

Delia Ramirez

I agree with that. Getting rid of Kristi Noem doesn’t solve the problem. Tom Homan is just as bad or worse. The man is a walking corruption case, right? They’re both dangerous. But she needs to be impeached and face consequences, so do all the agents, and we ultimately have to abolish the agency they’re using to kill and detain people, to starve children and destroy families.

So it’s all of it. Noem’s impeachment is just one piece of the full picture. Let’s impeach her. Let’s abolish ICE. Let’s make sure no more money goes toward this agency of terror, and redirect those funds back into the communities that have been most impacted by this harm that Congress has allowed to go on for far too long.

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That’s it for today

We’ll be back with a new episode of Nir & Rupar this afternoon and a special Saturday edition of the newsletter tomorrow.

Reminder that we’re donating all new revenue from today’s newsletter to the The Energy CENTS Coalition. If you’d like to support Public Notice and a good cause, please click the button to sign up.

Thanks for reading.

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