It doesn't help that Trump controls the coffers of the Republican Party through appointing his loyalist and daughter-in-law to the highest levels of the organization. He is bribing oligarchs for cash and he has elected officials doing his bidding by deligitimizing the justice system. The GOP became a conduit for all of this. Not very law and order of them.
"...the juice ain’t worth the squeeze." Absolutely true. No Republican is going to admit that they were given orders from Trump, and as Michael Cohen has repeatedly said, Trump doesn't give direct orders. Let's get the trial completed and wait on the jury's verdict.
Unfortunately, trump isn't like anyone else. He is a former POTUS and is running for POTUS again. He is also a serial liar and malignant narcissist. What he has done, and continues to do, is unprecedented. What Republican members of Congress are doing in servitude to him is unprecedented. As much as we would love to throw them all in jail, we can't do that. We have to do what's correct and allow for due process, even as Republicans rail against the rule of law. I think Judge Merchan is an experienced, knowledgeable and fair judge. He may sentence trump to prison. Even if he stays out while waiting for the appeal, when he loses it, off to jail he will go. I'm not a lawyer or have any real knowledge of the law, but I think he will be found guilty and the verdict will be upheld on appeal, assuming President Biden wins in November. I have a lot of hope for that, too.
Trump has been skating too long. It's time for a reckoning. The law is having a very hard time taking care of this existential problem for us. We are trying to make this case a workhorse. It's doing a lot, but it cannot do the job completely. But it keeps on giving- now in terms of the complicity of the cheering squad trekked in from D.C. Disgusting.
Joyce Vance has an interesting column (https://joycevance.substack.com/p/five-questions-with-former-assistant )that addresses what will happen with a gag order if trump is convicted. It is up in the air about what Merchan will do, but it is apparently possible for it to continue to be in effect, particularly as to comments about the jurors or, presumably, some of the less flamboyant witnesses. The prosecution may be saving up their arguments for that phase of the trial, rather than slow the momentum.
Also one of the things that could influence sentencing is the remorse, if any, displayed by the defendant. We all can see how well THAT part will go for trump.
No judge ever should be so bold as to write that he is imposing a $1,000 fine (especially for speech criticizing a judge or court) merely to "protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order."
SCOTUS had this to say about such abuses of so-called "dignity" and "respect" in Landmark Commc’ns, Inc. v. Virginia, 435 U.S. 829 (1978): “[T]he law” (including the First, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments) “gives judges as persons, or courts as institutions” absolutely “no greater immunity from” our “criticism” (or our Constitution) “than other persons or institutions.” Lawyer or litigant “speech cannot be punished” merely “to protect the court as a mystical entity” or “judges as individuals or as anointed priests set apart from the community and spared the criticism to which” all “other public servants are exposed.” Mere “injury to [any judge’s] official reputation is an insufficient reason” for “repressing speech that would otherwise be free,” and “protect[ing]” the “institutional reputation of the courts, is entitled to no greater weight in the constitutional scales.”
The mere fact that a judge issued an order also does not mean that a person can be fined or jailed for violating it. Federal law governing contempt of court, for example, emphasizes that federal courts may fine or jail someone for "[d]isobedience or resistance" to an "order, rule, decree, or command" only if the order, itself, is "lawful." 18 U.S.C. 401(3). Please bear in mind that imposing such a fine or jail time is a criminal penalty, so the government must prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the order (which was violated) was "lawful." Many orders issued by judges are not lawful.
I'm afraid that you're asking the wrong question and, even worse, you're encouraging judges to abuse their powers. We should be very, very careful before we encourage judges to put people in jail (or even fine them) for their speech. Far too many judges far too often abuse their powers to retaliate against lawyers or litigants for speech that is protected by our Constitution. Too many judges too often already act like dictators or tyrants in at least some cases. At least some judges sometimes knowingly violate the law, and then they retaliate against lawyers or litigants for exposing or opposing judges' own violations of law. The question shouldn't be why isn't Trump in jail already. It should be why so many judges fine or imprison other people for their mere speech. Please don't feed the animals.
Hey Aaron and Liz. The reason Trump isn’t going to jail because it can stall the case and Trump may not be held accountable for his crimes? Seems like there’s so much nuance understanding this.
It doesn't help that Trump controls the coffers of the Republican Party through appointing his loyalist and daughter-in-law to the highest levels of the organization. He is bribing oligarchs for cash and he has elected officials doing his bidding by deligitimizing the justice system. The GOP became a conduit for all of this. Not very law and order of them.
"...the juice ain’t worth the squeeze." Absolutely true. No Republican is going to admit that they were given orders from Trump, and as Michael Cohen has repeatedly said, Trump doesn't give direct orders. Let's get the trial completed and wait on the jury's verdict.
Unfortunately, trump isn't like anyone else. He is a former POTUS and is running for POTUS again. He is also a serial liar and malignant narcissist. What he has done, and continues to do, is unprecedented. What Republican members of Congress are doing in servitude to him is unprecedented. As much as we would love to throw them all in jail, we can't do that. We have to do what's correct and allow for due process, even as Republicans rail against the rule of law. I think Judge Merchan is an experienced, knowledgeable and fair judge. He may sentence trump to prison. Even if he stays out while waiting for the appeal, when he loses it, off to jail he will go. I'm not a lawyer or have any real knowledge of the law, but I think he will be found guilty and the verdict will be upheld on appeal, assuming President Biden wins in November. I have a lot of hope for that, too.
Trump has been skating too long. It's time for a reckoning. The law is having a very hard time taking care of this existential problem for us. We are trying to make this case a workhorse. It's doing a lot, but it cannot do the job completely. But it keeps on giving- now in terms of the complicity of the cheering squad trekked in from D.C. Disgusting.
Simple. Money.
If you or I were in same situation. Without money for lawyers, it’s Jail time for you
Joyce Vance has an interesting column (https://joycevance.substack.com/p/five-questions-with-former-assistant )that addresses what will happen with a gag order if trump is convicted. It is up in the air about what Merchan will do, but it is apparently possible for it to continue to be in effect, particularly as to comments about the jurors or, presumably, some of the less flamboyant witnesses. The prosecution may be saving up their arguments for that phase of the trial, rather than slow the momentum.
Also one of the things that could influence sentencing is the remorse, if any, displayed by the defendant. We all can see how well THAT part will go for trump.
No judge ever should be so bold as to write that he is imposing a $1,000 fine (especially for speech criticizing a judge or court) merely to "protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order."
SCOTUS had this to say about such abuses of so-called "dignity" and "respect" in Landmark Commc’ns, Inc. v. Virginia, 435 U.S. 829 (1978): “[T]he law” (including the First, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments) “gives judges as persons, or courts as institutions” absolutely “no greater immunity from” our “criticism” (or our Constitution) “than other persons or institutions.” Lawyer or litigant “speech cannot be punished” merely “to protect the court as a mystical entity” or “judges as individuals or as anointed priests set apart from the community and spared the criticism to which” all “other public servants are exposed.” Mere “injury to [any judge’s] official reputation is an insufficient reason” for “repressing speech that would otherwise be free,” and “protect[ing]” the “institutional reputation of the courts, is entitled to no greater weight in the constitutional scales.”
The mere fact that a judge issued an order also does not mean that a person can be fined or jailed for violating it. Federal law governing contempt of court, for example, emphasizes that federal courts may fine or jail someone for "[d]isobedience or resistance" to an "order, rule, decree, or command" only if the order, itself, is "lawful." 18 U.S.C. 401(3). Please bear in mind that imposing such a fine or jail time is a criminal penalty, so the government must prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the order (which was violated) was "lawful." Many orders issued by judges are not lawful.
All that said, Trump's speech certainly can be restrained and punished without violating our Constitution. See, e.g., https://open.substack.com/pub/blackcollarcrime/p/trumps-speech-is-a-victim-of-its?r=30ufvh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web.
I'm afraid that you're asking the wrong question and, even worse, you're encouraging judges to abuse their powers. We should be very, very careful before we encourage judges to put people in jail (or even fine them) for their speech. Far too many judges far too often abuse their powers to retaliate against lawyers or litigants for speech that is protected by our Constitution. Too many judges too often already act like dictators or tyrants in at least some cases. At least some judges sometimes knowingly violate the law, and then they retaliate against lawyers or litigants for exposing or opposing judges' own violations of law. The question shouldn't be why isn't Trump in jail already. It should be why so many judges fine or imprison other people for their mere speech. Please don't feed the animals.
He is so corrupt. It's just terrible. He needs to be under the jail.
Hey Aaron and Liz. The reason Trump isn’t going to jail because it can stall the case and Trump may not be held accountable for his crimes? Seems like there’s so much nuance understanding this.