I'm not that old and can vividly remember when American conservatives respected democracy and the rule of law....Wow! What happened??? Donald Trump...the World's Greatest Ever Debaser. Look how low he's brought American conservatism in such a short time.
Actually, American conservatism has been rampant with corruption and skullduggery for quite some time. I would refer you to both Johnathan Katz's substack and book "Gangsters of Capitalism," and David Corn's book, "American Psychosis." Both relate the workings of the conservative, robber-baron side of the coin and how they led to what we're facing today.
Yeah nkrempa, Trump didn't do this all by himself. But I reckon he gave it a mighy push along. And the turn against democracy (respecting election results) and the rule of law are areas where I think he pushed American conservatism to new lows.
Oh, agreed, it has definitely hit far further than bargain basement status! I would not be surprised if we end up seeing whether or not they actually CAN dig themselves a hole to... well... the other side of the earth? ;) (not sure they'd want to dig to China, but who knows?)
The Republican party’s turn towards lawlessness, and fascism did not start with Trump. Trump is not the cause of it. He is, at best, the culmination of what the party has been moving toward for at least 40 years.
The Reagan administration in the 1980s was rife with corruption and lawbreaking. Conspiring with Iran to hold American hostages, illegally selling arms to hostile nations, providing funding and support to terrorist groups in violation of American law were all just part of daily routine.
The subsequent Bush administration issued blanket, pardons to kill any investigation into these and other crimes.
Trump, or someone like him, was just the inevitable next step on the Republican party’s decades-long turn to increasing disregard for law and active efforts to destroy America’s democracy.
What authoritarian and totalitarian hermit crabs do is get your idealism going and then promise that (only) they can fix things. Then they take over and bring in the corruption. Putin did this with Russia after the USSR disbanded in the 1990's; there was the promise of democracy and then the kleptocrats took the spoils.
Until recently I thought everyone believed in these things! But democacy and the rule of law are DEFINITELY the sort of important, long standing, stuff conservatives should believe in. Their power of self deception probably makes them think they still do but there actions don't. MAGA people need to stop calling themselves conservatives I guess. Their differences from classical (1930's) fascism makes me uncomfortable about calling them fascists but they need a new name. They are not conservatives.
Check out Robert Reich's latest on substack about fascism. Or Timothy Snyder. If it walks like a duck....
Fascism does not belong to the 1930's. We need the term, we take it, we define it for today using those symptoms of the 30's. Both RR and TS lay it out..
Indeed, they are not conservatives. And there should be no hesitation calling them what they have become just because we wish it weren't true. They are fascists and we shouldn't collude with them by not saying so.
I find myself regularly surprised by the number of people who are "shocked, shocked, I tell you" by the incredible lengths that Trump and the Republican party have gone to in order to subvert our democracy. There are any number of books, op-eds, and treatises written across the years that outline how far the conservative movement has already gone. That this particular bunch of misfits attempted to pull this one off is not all that surprising. The surprising part is how far they got and how much farther they *might* yet get, given the proud "no-nothingness" of the average GOP voter.
Actually Cheesebro wrote the 2nd memo suggesting the fake elector scheme. He was building on John Yoo's much earlier plan, which was followed up until Yoo told Pence at the last minute not to follow through with his and Cheesebro's written plans for what Pence should do during the counting of votes. (Seth Abrahamson's Proof Substack has the details.)
There is so much to digest and then understand about the sureness, the details, of what has been generally reported as criminality, corruption, in fear of the words betrayal and treason- which this surely is. But we won't officially call it that. A trial for treason would be more satisfactory. But we will take what we can get.
It took many helpers to bring Trump and our country to this precipice. But he did ascend to the presidency somehow because many of us put him there.
We depend on the law now, decent moral people using the law to try to save us from falling off this cliff edge. We depend on our system to enforce the judgements. Ironically, the Presidency is charged with enforcing the law, the one of our three branches. Trump has so many charges against him now and finally the overpowering evidence from his own helpers trying to save themselves, that he may very well spend the years he has left in a prison of some sort... or escape to a welcoming country. (Russia are you listening?)
Good summary of the conspiracy which involved not only Georgia but several other states. Yes, it is surreal that the Republican party continues to give aid and comfort to tRump. It is also, at this point, inexcusable.
I'm not that old and can vividly remember when American conservatives respected democracy and the rule of law....Wow! What happened??? Donald Trump...the World's Greatest Ever Debaser. Look how low he's brought American conservatism in such a short time.
Actually, American conservatism has been rampant with corruption and skullduggery for quite some time. I would refer you to both Johnathan Katz's substack and book "Gangsters of Capitalism," and David Corn's book, "American Psychosis." Both relate the workings of the conservative, robber-baron side of the coin and how they led to what we're facing today.
Yeah nkrempa, Trump didn't do this all by himself. But I reckon he gave it a mighy push along. And the turn against democracy (respecting election results) and the rule of law are areas where I think he pushed American conservatism to new lows.
Oh, agreed, it has definitely hit far further than bargain basement status! I would not be surprised if we end up seeing whether or not they actually CAN dig themselves a hole to... well... the other side of the earth? ;) (not sure they'd want to dig to China, but who knows?)
The Republican party’s turn towards lawlessness, and fascism did not start with Trump. Trump is not the cause of it. He is, at best, the culmination of what the party has been moving toward for at least 40 years.
The Reagan administration in the 1980s was rife with corruption and lawbreaking. Conspiring with Iran to hold American hostages, illegally selling arms to hostile nations, providing funding and support to terrorist groups in violation of American law were all just part of daily routine.
The subsequent Bush administration issued blanket, pardons to kill any investigation into these and other crimes.
Trump, or someone like him, was just the inevitable next step on the Republican party’s decades-long turn to increasing disregard for law and active efforts to destroy America’s democracy.
They corrupted the word conservatism. Like the authoritarians and totalitarians corrupted communism. Unsavory hermit crabs...
Hey Potter. I believe in NATO, democracy and the rule of law. Does that make me a conservative?
No
You gave me a belly laugh Potter. Thanks heaps
What authoritarian and totalitarian hermit crabs do is get your idealism going and then promise that (only) they can fix things. Then they take over and bring in the corruption. Putin did this with Russia after the USSR disbanded in the 1990's; there was the promise of democracy and then the kleptocrats took the spoils.
Are you trying to suggest that liberals don’t believe in those things?
Until recently I thought everyone believed in these things! But democacy and the rule of law are DEFINITELY the sort of important, long standing, stuff conservatives should believe in. Their power of self deception probably makes them think they still do but there actions don't. MAGA people need to stop calling themselves conservatives I guess. Their differences from classical (1930's) fascism makes me uncomfortable about calling them fascists but they need a new name. They are not conservatives.
Check out Robert Reich's latest on substack about fascism. Or Timothy Snyder. If it walks like a duck....
Fascism does not belong to the 1930's. We need the term, we take it, we define it for today using those symptoms of the 30's. Both RR and TS lay it out..
Indeed, they are not conservatives. And there should be no hesitation calling them what they have become just because we wish it weren't true. They are fascists and we shouldn't collude with them by not saying so.
Excellent write up. Getting more popcorn on order as these cases play out!
This is the clearest summary I've read yet. Thank you! I'll be sharing widely.
Thanks so much!
Thank you!
I wish DA Fani Willis the best of luck in this quite challenging endeavor. I am wondering whether Arizona will get it together to follow suit. After all, they had some fake group investigating their ballots. The fact that this group was allowed to recount the ballots in the way they did was and is quite troubling. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/cyber-ninjas-company-led-arizona-gop-election-audit-shutting-down-n1287145
I would like to see the Cyber Ninja's get in trouble for their actions. That is justice.
I find myself regularly surprised by the number of people who are "shocked, shocked, I tell you" by the incredible lengths that Trump and the Republican party have gone to in order to subvert our democracy. There are any number of books, op-eds, and treatises written across the years that outline how far the conservative movement has already gone. That this particular bunch of misfits attempted to pull this one off is not all that surprising. The surprising part is how far they got and how much farther they *might* yet get, given the proud "no-nothingness" of the average GOP voter.
Actually Cheesebro wrote the 2nd memo suggesting the fake elector scheme. He was building on John Yoo's much earlier plan, which was followed up until Yoo told Pence at the last minute not to follow through with his and Cheesebro's written plans for what Pence should do during the counting of votes. (Seth Abrahamson's Proof Substack has the details.)
There is so much to digest and then understand about the sureness, the details, of what has been generally reported as criminality, corruption, in fear of the words betrayal and treason- which this surely is. But we won't officially call it that. A trial for treason would be more satisfactory. But we will take what we can get.
It took many helpers to bring Trump and our country to this precipice. But he did ascend to the presidency somehow because many of us put him there.
We depend on the law now, decent moral people using the law to try to save us from falling off this cliff edge. We depend on our system to enforce the judgements. Ironically, the Presidency is charged with enforcing the law, the one of our three branches. Trump has so many charges against him now and finally the overpowering evidence from his own helpers trying to save themselves, that he may very well spend the years he has left in a prison of some sort... or escape to a welcoming country. (Russia are you listening?)
Good summary of the conspiracy which involved not only Georgia but several other states. Yes, it is surreal that the Republican party continues to give aid and comfort to tRump. It is also, at this point, inexcusable.