There is no reason why CNN could not have fact checked it in real time and put the results in writing like close caption TV! They knew the topics and everyone knows Trump’s usual rants and lies so much could’ve been prepared ahead of time. The moderators were totally ineffective. Much of the time, President Biden seemed in disbelief of the loud, forceful, and easy way that the lies and fabrications just kept on coming from Trump. I was a bit dumbstruck myself that this was allowed to go on without the moderators calling him out.
It was the poorest performance by Biden I’ve ever seen. However, it was an atrocity that Trump wasn’t fact checked in real time on the chiron. As you said, they knew he’d say all those things, it would have been easy to just pop something in there in real time. The “moderators” may have just as well been using flash cards.
I agree that the moderators were bad but Biden knew going in that they were going to do live fact-checks. It was on him to fill that void and he failed. I'm certainly with you however that the approach Tapper and Bash took was an abdication of journalistic responsibility.
I love ya Aaron but I have to disagree that Biden was supposed to be the fact checker. Per Seth Abrahamson, there were 602 lies (!); that's all Biden would have been doing, and I'm thinking he would have been prepped differently had anyone thought that 100% of his role was fact-checking Trump.
I don't know what the answer is, except maybe to not give a convicted felon, coup-er, sexual assaulter, and known liar the same platform we give an incumbent president.
Heather Cox Richardson explained Gish galloping, a technique in which one person in a debate tries to overwhelm his opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments and, in this case, a constant fire hose of lies. It worked in this case, especially given the format and the fact that the moderators did no fact-checking. When it was Biden's turn to speak where do you start, which lies do you challenge in 1 or 2 minutes. However, the focus groups on MSNBC (Arizona), CNN (Michigan) and a Latino TV station showed that the voters watching the debate were clearly aware of Trump's lies and disgusted by his lies. Voters may have a different perspective than pundits, except of course for MAGA and most Republicans. Republicans lie and Democrats panic. I am glad that, considering how Biden performed, this happened now in June. I wonder if Trump will still want to debate in September. For anyone who's had to participate in debates and numerous public speaking events sometimes you bomb (Obama bombed his first debate and everyone said GW Bush bombed one of his debates), but that doesn't mean you should freak out. It will take a few news cycles to get past this, but I believe that Biden will successfully move on. And, Trump will be sentenced in a couple of weeks because he is a convicted felon. It doesn't matter how poorly Biden did in this debate since nothing changes the fact that Trump has lost numerous civil suits and is a convicted felon. We'll also have the Supreme Court immunity decision soon and this may be able to change the trajectory of the conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election case, and the GA case about the state conspiracy to overthrow the election may also be able to at begin once the case about Fani Willis is decided. Of course there's no telling if those cases can move forward or not, but let's hope for the best. As Gavin Newsom said after the debate, Biden has our back and now it's time for us to have Biden's back.
Patricia -- I don't doubt that my perception on things is skewed by the fact I watch so much Trump, so his lies seem familiar to me. What I would say though is that Trump used the same tactics back in 2020 and Biden did a much better job handling them. But as you suggest, hopefully despite Biden's bad showing it's clear to people that voting to put Trump back in power would be a very self-destructive choice.
I agree, but in 2020 they didn't cut off Trump's mic or stick to time limits on responses. I don't know if you've ever been in an argument with someone who's telling nothing but lies and won't stop talking but you can't really hear what they're saying and you tend to shut most of it out. This format didn't allow that and Biden was overwhelmed.
It might have been. helpful since there was no fact-checking during the so-called debate — for CNN or a group of such outlets — to predict what tfg was going to lie about. He was forceful because he was doing what he always does. He ducked all the important questions and lied when he didn’t.
For Biden to move on he needs better meds than are available. The cognitive deficits he demonstrated last night were the only long-lasting memories anyone will carry into election day. He gave free fuel to the Republican meme machine for months to come. It's scandalous that his team has been hiding his disability from the public.
He didn’t demonstrate any cognitive deficits. He demonstrated that he has a cold and a stutter, and that his staff should all be fired for thinking he needed to memorize long answers full of statistics (which he did!) rather than simply pushing back on Trump in broad strokes and hammering home his felon status. He has plenty of time to demonstrate his capabilities.
Yes! I have been saying his team of advisors have their heads up their butts. Although "monday morning quarterbacking" is easy, I think you have the right idea.
I may have used the wrong term to describe the problem I observed. I wasn't suggesting that Biden has age-related cognitive decline or Alzheimer's disease, although that could be part of the problem. During the debate I perceived strong evidence of some form of cognitive issue for Biden.
The symptoms I witnessed include his inability to finish sentences coherently and an incapacity to respond adequately to the context given the responsibilities assigned to him.
I intermittenly have cognitive issues related to an autoimmune disorder that causes "brain fog". If I am in brain fog mode, my inability to conclude complex thoughts is obvious. This has significantly damaged my own professional standing and I have chosen to step back from a flourishing career where I made strategic decisions impacting hundreds of millions of dollars in spending.
I am not suggesting that Biden has an autoimmune disorder.
I am not President nor do I want to be, and would never pretend that I could handle the incredibly stressful and critical situations affecting trillions of dollars hundreds of millions of people that the US President is in every single day. These contexts cannot be appropriately managed without clear-headedness and rapid decision-making.
During the debate Biden repeatedly made illogical statements. He was unable to finish many thoughts and sentences without wandering far off topic and seemed unable to recall where he had started. He made absurd statements like this resonant whammy that has already been quoted millions of times: "we finally beat Medicare" He was disconnected from his own thinking. Beyond the debate context, what is happening daily in his work?
Every President in the mass media era has been under a microsope behaviorally and physically. They have all visibly suffered the effects of stress related to the role. Compounding Biden's advanced age with that stress has not been good for him or us.
Very well said. This morning I was also thinking about the stress angle. We laugh when we see Obama's before and after pics of his black to gray hair - but he was what...in his 40s? I can't even imagine the effects on a man twice his age. Honestly, I feel nothing but sadness for him today, he's a good man, but that was a disaster.
It was very clear that he was trying to cram several minutes worth of statistics and information he had memorized into only two minutes, which he was of course unable to do because of his stutter. It was political malpractice and poor debate prep, not evidence he cannot do the actual work of being president.
I agree wholeheartedly. I have been saying the same since Friday morning. If the campaign didn't fire whoever came up with that debate strategy they are making a terrible mistake.
Even in his prime Joe wasn't a numbers and recite policy guy. He was a politician that could connect with the American people by speaking plainly to them. Expecting him to be a real time fact checker to Trump was a horrible approach.
Monique Pressley put it, “The proof of Biden’s ability to run the country is the fact that he is running it. Successfully. Not a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath.”
Trump surprised no one with his garbage. Biden was incapable of responding adequately to a known liar and fascist. Who is already inside the White House taking advantage of Biden's absence of focus? Who's waiting in the wings given this inadequacy? It has made me feel like no one is in charge, at least no one that the public is aware of.
Really? Other than a cold and maybe laryngitis what medications are you referring to? Dementia? No. Professionals clearly see Biden’s issue is aging. It appears to them that Donald has dementia. Whatever. My take on what might have happened to the President on debate night is he clearly was not feeling well. Perhaps, maybe… he was run down after making two trips overseas for D-Day and G7, then hosting a Fundraiser in CA and followed up with his son being convicted. Joe Biden deserves a break taking into consideration he also appeared shocked with the way Trump battered him. I was in shock as well. It was a horrible night. Whether or not Biden resigns, he deserves a break. In my opinion.
Aaron, I agree with you too. I have two questions as I think about the debate. First, what were all those mock debates about? Doesn’t the Biden team recognize that you don’t beat Trump with statistics. For example, Trump said for years that his border wall would fix everything (and Mexico would pay for it!). It’s an example of many where Trump looks at an intractable problem and offers a solution that a fourth grade child would think of (does a border wall stop planes from flying over it?). Biden’s advisors have a lot to answer for.
Second, why were the moderators so unwilling to cut Trump’s mic? Trump would babble about a subject having nothing to do with the question and the moderators would allow him to finish his thoughts about the unrelated topic. It’s really quite easy (and could have been applied). For example, when Trump was asked about child care and it was clear he wasn’t going to talk about it either moderator could have said, “Mr. Trump- we haven’t provided this free time for you to only talk about the subjects you wish to talk about. Our role is to have you and Mr. Biden discuss topics that you don’t want to discuss.”
Jeff -- totally agree that there were obviously serious problems with how Biden prepared for the debate. My sense was that his team over-prepared him and at times he seemed to be trying to recite statements from memory, which turned out disastrously. He was nervous and uptight. Assuming there is another debate, he needs to be more loose, himself, and shoot from the hip more.
Agree wholeheartedly with the shoot from the hip comment. Outside of the absurd golf argument at the end, which Biden shouldn't have gotten sucked into, those were his best moments of the debate. The morals and of an alley cat was a great line that landed well.
exactly. Perhaps CNN's policy was not to fact check in real time. Consider that there were more lies per minute than anyone could type answers to. But cutting the mic WAS within the moderator's capabilities when he deflected from answering by going back--all the time--to his lies on immigration. Shame on them for not doing so.
Biden was always weak in debates, When I watched the 2020 Democratic primary debates, I thought his performance was laughable, and it never got better. I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter, and he wasn't even on my bingo card. BUT he was the last man standing, and went on to become a far, far better President than I ever imagined he could be. Last night was a poor debater's worst nightmare - being pummeled with a continuous stream of lies that no moderator contested, lies that were so bizarre and unhinged that you wouldn't know where to begin in challenging them, no matter how well-informed you are. That is Trump's strategy, and it is no surprise that he is a big fan of the WWF. I don't count Joe out. He has weathered unimaginable storms in his life and has acquired wisdom and empathy from each, while Trump only stores up revenge fantasies. Until and unless he steps aside, I'm still ridin' with Biden.
I'm certainly not counting Joe out and agree that he's been a fantastic president. Perhaps having such an early debate ends up being a blessing in disguise as time heals whatever wounds Biden inflected on himself last night. He's certainly demonstrated impressive resilience personally and politically throughout his life.
I’m disappointed in the progressive commentary on President Biden. No conservative would dis their own leader during a fight. What a buncha wimps we are. Callow.
Haven’t any of y’all played sports?
Yes Aaron, I think you’re too harsh. It makes us look weak to echo the conservative message.
We should keep hammering our own message instead.
Buck up. Get it together. Shake it off. This is a long game. Stand and fight.
I would argue that the MAGA cult is nothing to aspire to, and the ability to be self-critical is something that sets liberals apart in a good way. Ultimately Biden has to do much better than that or he isn’t going to win, which would be a disaster for the country. And there’s still time to turn it around.
Showing some support for Biden doesn't turn us into MAGAs, you know. Yes, liberal critical thinking skills differentiate us from the cultish R's......but there are proper times for all things and solidarity in the face of the R's constant attacks and the convicted felon's firehose of lies would not come amiss either.
I think my bona fides as a Biden supporter are pretty unimpeachable. Sometimes tough love is necessary. His performance last night wasn't acceptable, full stop.
I completely agree. You can be both a Biden supporter and clear-eyed about how damaging last night might be. I have a good friend, lifelong Republican, who voted for Biden because he loathes Trump. He texted me this morning and said he was thinking about NOT voting for President for the first time ever - he's 74. He said he feels like he doesn't want to be responsible for either of them. I know he'll change his mind and do the right thing, but geez, I hope this isn't a trend.
I would argue the same in any other of the multiverses than the one we find ourselves in. But this is an existential dilemma and I regret it, but we need to take the gloves off.
I agree that being willing to be self-critical is important. But speaking from my own professional life being critical is only valuable if their is an opportunity to improve, otherwise it's just defeating.
Bringing that back to the campaign, having conversations about how address this head on and move forward are great. Spinning out on crazy hypotheticals on how to replace Biden that aren't realistic is just defeating.
You say Biden lost the debate. The only way he lost is if you obsess on superficial look and feel, on “optics,” and ignore the meanings of the words the two men said. “Not great, Joe” is an irresponsible headline. The headline from last night is that the charlatan is still the charlatan (and a seditionist, and a traitor, and a fool), and the competent president is 81 years old and not a great orator, and the media is focused on the latter point rather than the former. This misdirection is so dangerous.
I'm just being honest about what I saw. I was absolutely shocked at Biden's listlessness at the start of the debate and frankly had a hard time figuring out what he was trying to say for most of it. There were numerous instances were he lost his train of thought partway through a response and just stopped talking, and no doubt the Trump campaign will use those against him over the next four months. It's possible my perception is warped by the fact I watch so much Trump and am somewhat desensitized by him but I really don't think there's any way to spin Biden's performance as anything other than a disappointment. If anything "not great" is being charitable.
I understand. But everything we say right now will either help Trump or help Biden. All the public expressions of disappointment in Biden help Trump, or so it seems to me. You could have (and should have) included your acknowledgment of Biden’s subpar performance without making that the headline.
"Optics" matter. Greg Olear on his substack had the transcript of Biden's answer to the first question. And reading through it, sounded fine. But - and I'm a Biden fan - I was cringing as I watched that answer. I could not appreciate the quality Biden's response because the optics of an old, frail man was overwhelming.
Good luck convincing the uncommitted voters. Feel free to head out and explain it to them. They saw that debate last night too and I will assure you not a single person decided at the end of the debate that they would definitely vote for Biden.
I agree with John...my biggest concern in this upcoming election are the ones who will choose not to vote rather than vote for Biden. And that certainly wasn't an inspiring performance on the surface level. Big work ahead to get people to the polls.
No one "won" last night. CNN's decision to just let Trump spew his torrent of lies without any pushback using facts (apparently a "news" organization finds that too burdensome) was disgraceful. Trump didn't add one single previously undecided voter to his column after that performance. Biden certainly didn't, either. The biggest loser is America.
As noted elsewhere, CNN looked like sh**. They clearly used the format to slant the event in Trump's favor. Tapper & Bash should be so ashamed, they quit & remove themselves from civil society.
Both candidates rambled - but Trump's massive flood of lies made him look worst of all.
Biden had a cold & stuttered - and of all of them, he still came off the best, at an event with no winners.
The worse part about letting Trump ramble on with essentially no challenge to his lies is that his supporters and more importantly—those on the fence—will read those as truth.
And because virtually everyone who was willing to see it before the event knew this, it means CNN purposely slanted the event in Trump's favor - which, given the stakes of this election, means CNN cannot be trusted.
Totally agree that the decision to not do fact-checking was irresponsible regardless of who made it. But Biden knew the rules going in and ultimately it was on him to fact-check Trump if the moderators weren't going to. He wasn't up for it.
At 11:20 (Eastern) last night, Daniel Dale & his team's fact check, printed, using 12 point font, via PrintFriendly, ran to 17 pages.
By 7:15AM today, it was at 27+ pages - and counting.
Anyone who expected ANY human being to be able to fact check that kind of a fire hose of lies AND still get their own points across isn't being realistic.
Further, since CNN, including Tapper & Bash, were the hosts?
It was their responsibility to keep the "playing field" clean.
You throw a party, people puke in the living room, you don't just leave it and say, "Well, the party goers knew what they were getting into."
CNN failed so badly, that In a different world, as a lesson to everyone else in the news business, they would be immediately shut down, the equipment sold for scrap, and the hosts beaten to near an inch of their lives.
"Anyone who expected ANY human being to be able to fact check that kind of a fire hose of lies AND still get their own points across isn't being realistic."
Posted this in another comment but I actually think the Biden team's plan of having him be the fact checker was the problem with this debate.
Should have stuck to. "How can I rebut what he just said when he lied for 2 straight minutes, here's a couple of talking points" and maybe throw in a Biden zinger.
But trying to fact check Trump you are playing into his hands in my opinion. Even if you have a good speaker like a Buttigieg it's going to come off as Trump bravado and the other person confusing everyone by throwing out facts and policy details for 2 hours. I'm not really sure how you solve for that in a debate, in fact I'm not sure anyone does. But the Biden teams attempt was the worst idea imaginable.
Last May when CNN had Trump on and “interviewed” by Kaitlyn Collins, with a live audience of his own MAGA supporters, it was painfully apparent that CNN only cares about Ratings. I’ve not looked at them as a serious news source ever since.
When Trump claimed what he did on abortion was a great thing and Biden answered by bringing up that young woman who was killed by an illegal immigrant, I went and opened a bottle of wine. He literally could not have done a worse job, he looked and sounded not just old, but totally out of it. If my choices are Trump and Biden, of course I'm voting for the latter, but between Trump's unchecked lies and Biden's inability to articulate anything, I am feeling nothing but despair.
I'm with you, Aaron. All of what you said, plus it's early for debating (as tsk-tsking pundits kept pointing out last week) and there's time for the Biden campaign to recover while people aren't entirely tuned into the election yet. We're heading into July 4 holiday week, and after that all the commentary will be about Trump's upcoming sentencing. And of course Trump won't stop talking, and last night will only encourage him to brag incessantly about how he won, and to keep telling ever more outrageous lies. Hubris, his conviction that he's invincible, will bring him down eventually. We just have to hope "eventually" is around mid September.
The focus on Trump, what he was saying, if one could, absorb it : the lies and the shit-talking. I mean the insulting denigration of our basically good country with good people "on both sides" but specifically about the country and the Democrats as if there should only be the Trump party. May this perversely help Biden.
I read that Biden was battling a cold- was over prepped.. either or both. I can imagine he was nervous and had his speech and hoarseness as a result. But again this made people focus on Trump as the alternative. Biden's one night bomb or this Trump monster, not just last night's performance either. Biden cannot save the country alone. He needs help.. all hands on deck. In the meantime there is panic amongst those out there asking for another candidate and this does more harm than the debate itself. It will be sorted out at the D convention. Maybe the R convention too. Hang onto your socks.
I'm just not willing to accept any excuses at this point. Biden was sequestered at Camp David for a week preparing. You gotta overcome minor illnesses when the stakes are this high. Not to say he can't battle back from this and still win -- I think he can -- but I'm not gonna dismiss what I saw based on a cold.
Love ya Aaron. I have an anger about Biden's running again that I am putting aside. And NO ONE stepped up on the Democratic side to challenge him out of deference. .. including Bernie Sanders who knew he passed his time and whom I much preferred. I put all this aside because this is the choice unless something unusual happens. We are in for it either way! And even if Biden was not running. Get ready.
If we want an experienced person, who has been around the track a lot over the years, who knows what he is doing especially at this time to go after a novice con (even a G. Bush who got us into a lot of trouble) or even green Obama who let us down about hope and change trying to triangulate, then we have to deal with age and infirmity.
Panic and anger helps Trump.
Banging on Biden and asking Democrats to change course helps Trump UNLESS we are SERIOUS and have someone at the ready at this point. Do we?
WE must learn that we made and make choices with hope and somewhat blindly and will have to make choices with all the upsides and downsides in this imperfect democracy. We need to engage in this process with respect and understanding for human capacity. POTUS is an extraordinary job and no one human can do it perfectly every day every moment and make no mistake even in policy/foreign affairs ( as Biden done too) But the alternative choice is more than just unacceptable.
Emerson said : 'Things are in the saddle and ride mankind'
Thank you for your important work... the kids must be beautiful by now, not seen but glad you are protecting them.
Also who do we want to trade Biden for if we all could agree? And would they? Don't forget Biden was a consensus candidate and really not a good campaigner, did not do well at the debates, to begin with. South Carolina's James Clyburn pushed this and spoke for the black vote. Then the ball got rolling. Oh but Biden was so young then. I do remember he said he was going to be a transitional prez and thinking he was old and probably will have one term. And then he picked Kamala Harris to (I think) do a good deed, to follow him, to promote her, and woman and one of "color" too. She has not clicked, did not click to begin with, though I am sure she would be fine in the role of prez, but also not popular, attracting negativity. We are in a bad place in this country politically with this disease on the right. Biden chose to do as best as he could and, admit it, he did a lot and was alot more liberal than it seemed he would be which is bold for these times.The far left quieted down, no?. But Democrats don't fight back the force of lies, misinformation and hate that has taken over much of the country and has taken hold. People,many and not all, are lazy busy and "getting and spending" .. selfish. Maybe we get what we deserve.
So what do we need to go forward in aa positive hopeful way and are we going to get it? A bullfighter? Both houses? A lot of unchanneled in your face loud, coherent, grabbing hold of morality and truth and capturing of the hungry "responsible" media's attention? Wishful. My mate here is ready to get rid of Biden now though heretofore not or a maybe we should. It's the barrage of the negatives about last night which maybe brought realization. Are we kidding ourselves that Biden, though he has an excellent record (save Gaza) can prevail give the propaganda machine, ignorance vulnerability of the voters and the knee jerk need to vote GOP regardless?
Who Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer? Who. I like Sheldon Whitehouse. I like Jay Inslee. Are they going to do it for us? Sherrod Brown? We got lots. I like Elizabeth Warren.
Is this realistic? Do they or anyone else you can think of have the stomach, the money, the administration at the ready??
Read Heather Cox Richardson on this “debate” . Excellent. Substack about the June 27 debate. Get a grip Aaron. The cold as far as I know did not come from any credible source but certainly would be a reason for giving some room for not punching hard. But Heather gets it right overall. https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/june-27-2024?r=x4y22&utm_medium=ios
Aaron, I agree with you. I think Biden and his administration have done a stellar job, but we need a strong candidate who’s a great orator to run and knock Trump down into the hole he crawled out of.
Biden had one job, to counter the narrative that he is too old for another term. He blew it, his advisors blew it, Ron Klain blew it. Watching him made me feel old and I’m only 75. Where was State of the Union Biden? I understand the stutter and maybe a cold, but he rarely had a cogent response to Trump’s well-chosen attacks. Not well-chosen because they were true but because the right response required a calm refutation of the lies with mastery of the facts. Again, what were Klain et al prepping him for if not for the ability to fact-check Trump in real time?
It truly was heartbreaking to watch, no denying. Part of the problem it seems was the intensive prep of Biden. Rather than having him ramble facts and figures, the focus should have been on attacking the firehouse of lies we all knew Trump would spew.
Everyone in my orbit is a big Biden fan and agree with your assessment. This was a failure; a lost opportunity which only served to reinforce the too old issue.
Also HCR as always was on point. Here’s her letter:
As I said below this is too much to ask of Biden-- at any age even. A firehose of lies is Trump's modus operandi as well as denigrating the country, the media, the Democrats, immigrants, etc etc. This covers millions of people that have to swallow this and know better!
It's not fair to Biden who has done a decent job as leader, some say very very well, to expect him to slay this monster alone and in one night. Yet people are in a panic and this does not help and may help Trump perversely.
Was it Biden’s job to debate trump’s lies or to answer CNNs questions? He couldn’t win one way or another and got flustered trying to do both. Biden might have done both if not suffering cold & more Mountain Dew available.
I read a couple of comments saying he had a cold. This may or may not be true. It's not widely said nor may not be true but an excuse for those who need to have a reason for the bad performance. So it may or may not be true, but at this point in the game let people believe it if they need a reason to get out of their panic for this night. They need to get a grip on this response and perspective. I totally agree, any other D candidate would not have been able to deal with the firehose of lies and denigration. And CNN was not willing or able. Now we think/know the format was bad for Biden, better for Trump. Maybe Trump took some drug or this is his natural, but he accused Biden of doing this prior to the debate remember. Biden needed one, a mild tranquilzer. If anyone who has been paying attention steps back and looks in perspective there have been many more incoherent rantings we have glimpses of that were questioning Trump's mental capacity to rule, more than Biden has suffered. Biden forgets names ( common in elderly) and gets flustered, stutters. He was probably, most likely, very nervous and "over prepped". This is one night. 100 million viewers supposedly. Trump has been exposing his atrocious mental state and lies to cheering crowds in channelled vetted partisan audiences for years and more lately. At CNN he was protected from the boos he would have gotten for all the lies.
I hope others are as forgiving as you are of Biden. Many are very angry. Democrats are fickle. Republicans, especially after the party has been cleansed of the principled, and the yahoos are in lockstep, in thrall to Trump.. and willing to destroy the country as we know it.
agree with you entirely, Aaron. the emotional responses saying Joe's got to go this minute are hot takes, which are almost always terrible. but the serious concerns raised last night can't be waved away and must be dealt with by Biden and his campaign.
that said, the format at least with Joe where he was last night seemed to favor Trump. and the useless moderators who basically gave Trump the biggest audience he's had since he was in the WH to spew outrageous lies without pushback or fact-checks. wonder if the no-live-fact-check decision was behind closed doors to mollify Trump's people, who complained bitterly that there would be any fact-checking at all. but the result is that millions who haven't been paying attention and watched last night heard a firehose of rotten lies and believes them.
anyway, not the night we expected and a deeply concerning performance by Biden, but he deserves a proper opportunity to explain what happened and again try to convince the American people he's up for the job, and we mustn't make decisions based on panic.
was sickening, watching Trump spewing garbage over and over, while the supposed moderators kept time and asked the next question.
as much as I want to know how we ended up with the Biden performance we got last night, I want to know how CNN arrived at the no-live-fact-checks decision. it was fateful in that it gave Trump a huge advantage while Biden's rotten night got the headlines. I mean, everyone is reporting how Trump lied but bafflingly many of us seem to have priced that in, as if he could possibly be a decent president when he's...everything he is, and corrupt as the day is long.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lesley. Now we wait and see how the debate impacts polling, if it does at all. And if Biden does take a significant dip, then things could get interesting. The thing to watch is whether prominent Dems start calling for Biden to step aside. They haven't so far and I don't expect them to, but I don't think it can be totally ruled out after last night.
The NY Times did a fairly good job fact checking real time. The lies were coming fast and furiously and they are repeated lies and should have been at hand and close captioned, but I don't know if that was possible. Maybe CNN did not want to show bias against Trump because every time he opens his mouth he lies. There will be a lot of fact checking after the fact and lord help us again regarding folks who don't tune in and just base there choice, if they were really undecided, on last night and according to presentation and not substance.
I don't think millions believe the barrage of rotten lies. They are all of of piece. You have to buy this denigration of our people our country and Democrats, and buy that Trump is gonna fix it.
If millions believe this, millions do not. Trump was exposed... too!!
I think even worse than not fact checking, which I kind of expected, was not calling him out for not answering the question. Letting him talk about the border for the January 6th question and then only weakly asking it again was malpractice by the moderators.
The bar was set extremely low for Biden, and he couldn’t even meet or exceed the bar. I’m sure this will blow over and my main hope is that tonight’s performance wasn’t a sign of something cognitively deeper for Biden.
This won’t sway the polls too much as most people are pretty dug in. This just shows a glaring weakness for Biden and I hope it doesn’t sway votes in a meaningful way
The only good to come from last night’s abysmal performance by Biden is that I was able to raise over 300$ for the abortion care training program at the uni I work for. The fund offsets the travel cost for students in need who have to travel to Oregon to learn the full scope of obgyn care.
Thank you. I can’t wait to tell one of the ladies who works for that program. She’s gonna be thrilled. If September’s rematch goes off, I’ll raise $$ for the Yellowhammer Fund.
There is no reason why CNN could not have fact checked it in real time and put the results in writing like close caption TV! They knew the topics and everyone knows Trump’s usual rants and lies so much could’ve been prepared ahead of time. The moderators were totally ineffective. Much of the time, President Biden seemed in disbelief of the loud, forceful, and easy way that the lies and fabrications just kept on coming from Trump. I was a bit dumbstruck myself that this was allowed to go on without the moderators calling him out.
It was the poorest performance by Biden I’ve ever seen. However, it was an atrocity that Trump wasn’t fact checked in real time on the chiron. As you said, they knew he’d say all those things, it would have been easy to just pop something in there in real time. The “moderators” may have just as well been using flash cards.
I agree that the moderators were bad but Biden knew going in that they were going to do live fact-checks. It was on him to fill that void and he failed. I'm certainly with you however that the approach Tapper and Bash took was an abdication of journalistic responsibility.
I love ya Aaron but I have to disagree that Biden was supposed to be the fact checker. Per Seth Abrahamson, there were 602 lies (!); that's all Biden would have been doing, and I'm thinking he would have been prepped differently had anyone thought that 100% of his role was fact-checking Trump.
I don't know what the answer is, except maybe to not give a convicted felon, coup-er, sexual assaulter, and known liar the same platform we give an incumbent president.
I’m outraged.
Same!
We needed Kyle from Colorado as the moderator
Kyle from Colorado would have stopped Trump on all his deflections and not answering questions esp Project 2025.
Exactly!! 👍
Heather Cox Richardson explained Gish galloping, a technique in which one person in a debate tries to overwhelm his opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments and, in this case, a constant fire hose of lies. It worked in this case, especially given the format and the fact that the moderators did no fact-checking. When it was Biden's turn to speak where do you start, which lies do you challenge in 1 or 2 minutes. However, the focus groups on MSNBC (Arizona), CNN (Michigan) and a Latino TV station showed that the voters watching the debate were clearly aware of Trump's lies and disgusted by his lies. Voters may have a different perspective than pundits, except of course for MAGA and most Republicans. Republicans lie and Democrats panic. I am glad that, considering how Biden performed, this happened now in June. I wonder if Trump will still want to debate in September. For anyone who's had to participate in debates and numerous public speaking events sometimes you bomb (Obama bombed his first debate and everyone said GW Bush bombed one of his debates), but that doesn't mean you should freak out. It will take a few news cycles to get past this, but I believe that Biden will successfully move on. And, Trump will be sentenced in a couple of weeks because he is a convicted felon. It doesn't matter how poorly Biden did in this debate since nothing changes the fact that Trump has lost numerous civil suits and is a convicted felon. We'll also have the Supreme Court immunity decision soon and this may be able to change the trajectory of the conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election case, and the GA case about the state conspiracy to overthrow the election may also be able to at begin once the case about Fani Willis is decided. Of course there's no telling if those cases can move forward or not, but let's hope for the best. As Gavin Newsom said after the debate, Biden has our back and now it's time for us to have Biden's back.
Patricia -- I don't doubt that my perception on things is skewed by the fact I watch so much Trump, so his lies seem familiar to me. What I would say though is that Trump used the same tactics back in 2020 and Biden did a much better job handling them. But as you suggest, hopefully despite Biden's bad showing it's clear to people that voting to put Trump back in power would be a very self-destructive choice.
I agree, but in 2020 they didn't cut off Trump's mic or stick to time limits on responses. I don't know if you've ever been in an argument with someone who's telling nothing but lies and won't stop talking but you can't really hear what they're saying and you tend to shut most of it out. This format didn't allow that and Biden was overwhelmed.
It might have been. helpful since there was no fact-checking during the so-called debate — for CNN or a group of such outlets — to predict what tfg was going to lie about. He was forceful because he was doing what he always does. He ducked all the important questions and lied when he didn’t.
THANK YOU...you have stated clearly what I have been trying articulate most of the morning.
For Biden to move on he needs better meds than are available. The cognitive deficits he demonstrated last night were the only long-lasting memories anyone will carry into election day. He gave free fuel to the Republican meme machine for months to come. It's scandalous that his team has been hiding his disability from the public.
He didn’t demonstrate any cognitive deficits. He demonstrated that he has a cold and a stutter, and that his staff should all be fired for thinking he needed to memorize long answers full of statistics (which he did!) rather than simply pushing back on Trump in broad strokes and hammering home his felon status. He has plenty of time to demonstrate his capabilities.
Yes! I have been saying his team of advisors have their heads up their butts. Although "monday morning quarterbacking" is easy, I think you have the right idea.
I may have used the wrong term to describe the problem I observed. I wasn't suggesting that Biden has age-related cognitive decline or Alzheimer's disease, although that could be part of the problem. During the debate I perceived strong evidence of some form of cognitive issue for Biden.
The symptoms I witnessed include his inability to finish sentences coherently and an incapacity to respond adequately to the context given the responsibilities assigned to him.
I intermittenly have cognitive issues related to an autoimmune disorder that causes "brain fog". If I am in brain fog mode, my inability to conclude complex thoughts is obvious. This has significantly damaged my own professional standing and I have chosen to step back from a flourishing career where I made strategic decisions impacting hundreds of millions of dollars in spending.
I am not suggesting that Biden has an autoimmune disorder.
I am not President nor do I want to be, and would never pretend that I could handle the incredibly stressful and critical situations affecting trillions of dollars hundreds of millions of people that the US President is in every single day. These contexts cannot be appropriately managed without clear-headedness and rapid decision-making.
During the debate Biden repeatedly made illogical statements. He was unable to finish many thoughts and sentences without wandering far off topic and seemed unable to recall where he had started. He made absurd statements like this resonant whammy that has already been quoted millions of times: "we finally beat Medicare" He was disconnected from his own thinking. Beyond the debate context, what is happening daily in his work?
Every President in the mass media era has been under a microsope behaviorally and physically. They have all visibly suffered the effects of stress related to the role. Compounding Biden's advanced age with that stress has not been good for him or us.
For an overview of how stress can cause or accelerate cognitive deficit: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3302010/
Very well said. This morning I was also thinking about the stress angle. We laugh when we see Obama's before and after pics of his black to gray hair - but he was what...in his 40s? I can't even imagine the effects on a man twice his age. Honestly, I feel nothing but sadness for him today, he's a good man, but that was a disaster.
It was very clear that he was trying to cram several minutes worth of statistics and information he had memorized into only two minutes, which he was of course unable to do because of his stutter. It was political malpractice and poor debate prep, not evidence he cannot do the actual work of being president.
I agree wholeheartedly. I have been saying the same since Friday morning. If the campaign didn't fire whoever came up with that debate strategy they are making a terrible mistake.
Even in his prime Joe wasn't a numbers and recite policy guy. He was a politician that could connect with the American people by speaking plainly to them. Expecting him to be a real time fact checker to Trump was a horrible approach.
Monique Pressley put it, “The proof of Biden’s ability to run the country is the fact that he is running it. Successfully. Not a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath.”
Trump surprised no one with his garbage. Biden was incapable of responding adequately to a known liar and fascist. Who is already inside the White House taking advantage of Biden's absence of focus? Who's waiting in the wings given this inadequacy? It has made me feel like no one is in charge, at least no one that the public is aware of.
🤬
Really? Other than a cold and maybe laryngitis what medications are you referring to? Dementia? No. Professionals clearly see Biden’s issue is aging. It appears to them that Donald has dementia. Whatever. My take on what might have happened to the President on debate night is he clearly was not feeling well. Perhaps, maybe… he was run down after making two trips overseas for D-Day and G7, then hosting a Fundraiser in CA and followed up with his son being convicted. Joe Biden deserves a break taking into consideration he also appeared shocked with the way Trump battered him. I was in shock as well. It was a horrible night. Whether or not Biden resigns, he deserves a break. In my opinion.
Aaron, I agree with you too. I have two questions as I think about the debate. First, what were all those mock debates about? Doesn’t the Biden team recognize that you don’t beat Trump with statistics. For example, Trump said for years that his border wall would fix everything (and Mexico would pay for it!). It’s an example of many where Trump looks at an intractable problem and offers a solution that a fourth grade child would think of (does a border wall stop planes from flying over it?). Biden’s advisors have a lot to answer for.
Second, why were the moderators so unwilling to cut Trump’s mic? Trump would babble about a subject having nothing to do with the question and the moderators would allow him to finish his thoughts about the unrelated topic. It’s really quite easy (and could have been applied). For example, when Trump was asked about child care and it was clear he wasn’t going to talk about it either moderator could have said, “Mr. Trump- we haven’t provided this free time for you to only talk about the subjects you wish to talk about. Our role is to have you and Mr. Biden discuss topics that you don’t want to discuss.”
Jeff -- totally agree that there were obviously serious problems with how Biden prepared for the debate. My sense was that his team over-prepared him and at times he seemed to be trying to recite statements from memory, which turned out disastrously. He was nervous and uptight. Assuming there is another debate, he needs to be more loose, himself, and shoot from the hip more.
Agree wholeheartedly with the shoot from the hip comment. Outside of the absurd golf argument at the end, which Biden shouldn't have gotten sucked into, those were his best moments of the debate. The morals and of an alley cat was a great line that landed well.
exactly. Perhaps CNN's policy was not to fact check in real time. Consider that there were more lies per minute than anyone could type answers to. But cutting the mic WAS within the moderator's capabilities when he deflected from answering by going back--all the time--to his lies on immigration. Shame on them for not doing so.
Biden was always weak in debates, When I watched the 2020 Democratic primary debates, I thought his performance was laughable, and it never got better. I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter, and he wasn't even on my bingo card. BUT he was the last man standing, and went on to become a far, far better President than I ever imagined he could be. Last night was a poor debater's worst nightmare - being pummeled with a continuous stream of lies that no moderator contested, lies that were so bizarre and unhinged that you wouldn't know where to begin in challenging them, no matter how well-informed you are. That is Trump's strategy, and it is no surprise that he is a big fan of the WWF. I don't count Joe out. He has weathered unimaginable storms in his life and has acquired wisdom and empathy from each, while Trump only stores up revenge fantasies. Until and unless he steps aside, I'm still ridin' with Biden.
I'm certainly not counting Joe out and agree that he's been a fantastic president. Perhaps having such an early debate ends up being a blessing in disguise as time heals whatever wounds Biden inflected on himself last night. He's certainly demonstrated impressive resilience personally and politically throughout his life.
I’m disappointed in the progressive commentary on President Biden. No conservative would dis their own leader during a fight. What a buncha wimps we are. Callow.
Haven’t any of y’all played sports?
Yes Aaron, I think you’re too harsh. It makes us look weak to echo the conservative message.
We should keep hammering our own message instead.
Buck up. Get it together. Shake it off. This is a long game. Stand and fight.
I would argue that the MAGA cult is nothing to aspire to, and the ability to be self-critical is something that sets liberals apart in a good way. Ultimately Biden has to do much better than that or he isn’t going to win, which would be a disaster for the country. And there’s still time to turn it around.
Showing some support for Biden doesn't turn us into MAGAs, you know. Yes, liberal critical thinking skills differentiate us from the cultish R's......but there are proper times for all things and solidarity in the face of the R's constant attacks and the convicted felon's firehose of lies would not come amiss either.
I think my bona fides as a Biden supporter are pretty unimpeachable. Sometimes tough love is necessary. His performance last night wasn't acceptable, full stop.
I completely agree. You can be both a Biden supporter and clear-eyed about how damaging last night might be. I have a good friend, lifelong Republican, who voted for Biden because he loathes Trump. He texted me this morning and said he was thinking about NOT voting for President for the first time ever - he's 74. He said he feels like he doesn't want to be responsible for either of them. I know he'll change his mind and do the right thing, but geez, I hope this isn't a trend.
file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/53/03/570F0A63-6CF9-4898-86FE-97EE0C52A2C7/IMG_7045.MOV.
This little barred owl RIGHT NOW in Austin says “ shake it off y’all. On to the next match!”
Remember don’t echo their narrative. Counter it.💪🔥🫶🏼
I would argue the same in any other of the multiverses than the one we find ourselves in. But this is an existential dilemma and I regret it, but we need to take the gloves off.
I agree that being willing to be self-critical is important. But speaking from my own professional life being critical is only valuable if their is an opportunity to improve, otherwise it's just defeating.
Bringing that back to the campaign, having conversations about how address this head on and move forward are great. Spinning out on crazy hypotheticals on how to replace Biden that aren't realistic is just defeating.
Thank you this, everyone needs to hear it and believe.
I agree.
THANK YOU SIR!!
You say Biden lost the debate. The only way he lost is if you obsess on superficial look and feel, on “optics,” and ignore the meanings of the words the two men said. “Not great, Joe” is an irresponsible headline. The headline from last night is that the charlatan is still the charlatan (and a seditionist, and a traitor, and a fool), and the competent president is 81 years old and not a great orator, and the media is focused on the latter point rather than the former. This misdirection is so dangerous.
Your column is good by the time we get to the end, Aaron. But you have buried the lede and highlighted the superficial.
I'm just being honest about what I saw. I was absolutely shocked at Biden's listlessness at the start of the debate and frankly had a hard time figuring out what he was trying to say for most of it. There were numerous instances were he lost his train of thought partway through a response and just stopped talking, and no doubt the Trump campaign will use those against him over the next four months. It's possible my perception is warped by the fact I watch so much Trump and am somewhat desensitized by him but I really don't think there's any way to spin Biden's performance as anything other than a disappointment. If anything "not great" is being charitable.
I understand. But everything we say right now will either help Trump or help Biden. All the public expressions of disappointment in Biden help Trump, or so it seems to me. You could have (and should have) included your acknowledgment of Biden’s subpar performance without making that the headline.
"Optics" matter. Greg Olear on his substack had the transcript of Biden's answer to the first question. And reading through it, sounded fine. But - and I'm a Biden fan - I was cringing as I watched that answer. I could not appreciate the quality Biden's response because the optics of an old, frail man was overwhelming.
Good luck convincing the uncommitted voters. Feel free to head out and explain it to them. They saw that debate last night too and I will assure you not a single person decided at the end of the debate that they would definitely vote for Biden.
Yes, that’s a problem. But it’s because we have been trained to focus on optics and in general do not know how to listen critically.
Listening critically made the problem even larger.
I agree with John...my biggest concern in this upcoming election are the ones who will choose not to vote rather than vote for Biden. And that certainly wasn't an inspiring performance on the surface level. Big work ahead to get people to the polls.
No one "won" last night. CNN's decision to just let Trump spew his torrent of lies without any pushback using facts (apparently a "news" organization finds that too burdensome) was disgraceful. Trump didn't add one single previously undecided voter to his column after that performance. Biden certainly didn't, either. The biggest loser is America.
No one won last night.
As noted elsewhere, CNN looked like sh**. They clearly used the format to slant the event in Trump's favor. Tapper & Bash should be so ashamed, they quit & remove themselves from civil society.
Both candidates rambled - but Trump's massive flood of lies made him look worst of all.
Biden had a cold & stuttered - and of all of them, he still came off the best, at an event with no winners.
The worse part about letting Trump ramble on with essentially no challenge to his lies is that his supporters and more importantly—those on the fence—will read those as truth.
Which makes CNN complicit in Trump's lies.
And because virtually everyone who was willing to see it before the event knew this, it means CNN purposely slanted the event in Trump's favor - which, given the stakes of this election, means CNN cannot be trusted.
Totally agree that the decision to not do fact-checking was irresponsible regardless of who made it. But Biden knew the rules going in and ultimately it was on him to fact-check Trump if the moderators weren't going to. He wasn't up for it.
No one person would be up for it.
At 11:20 (Eastern) last night, Daniel Dale & his team's fact check, printed, using 12 point font, via PrintFriendly, ran to 17 pages.
By 7:15AM today, it was at 27+ pages - and counting.
Anyone who expected ANY human being to be able to fact check that kind of a fire hose of lies AND still get their own points across isn't being realistic.
Further, since CNN, including Tapper & Bash, were the hosts?
It was their responsibility to keep the "playing field" clean.
You throw a party, people puke in the living room, you don't just leave it and say, "Well, the party goers knew what they were getting into."
CNN failed so badly, that In a different world, as a lesson to everyone else in the news business, they would be immediately shut down, the equipment sold for scrap, and the hosts beaten to near an inch of their lives.
Totally inexcusable from them.
"Anyone who expected ANY human being to be able to fact check that kind of a fire hose of lies AND still get their own points across isn't being realistic."
1000 times this; the AND is key.
Posted this in another comment but I actually think the Biden team's plan of having him be the fact checker was the problem with this debate.
Should have stuck to. "How can I rebut what he just said when he lied for 2 straight minutes, here's a couple of talking points" and maybe throw in a Biden zinger.
But trying to fact check Trump you are playing into his hands in my opinion. Even if you have a good speaker like a Buttigieg it's going to come off as Trump bravado and the other person confusing everyone by throwing out facts and policy details for 2 hours. I'm not really sure how you solve for that in a debate, in fact I'm not sure anyone does. But the Biden teams attempt was the worst idea imaginable.
Last May when CNN had Trump on and “interviewed” by Kaitlyn Collins, with a live audience of his own MAGA supporters, it was painfully apparent that CNN only cares about Ratings. I’ve not looked at them as a serious news source ever since.
EXACTLY....
When Trump claimed what he did on abortion was a great thing and Biden answered by bringing up that young woman who was killed by an illegal immigrant, I went and opened a bottle of wine. He literally could not have done a worse job, he looked and sounded not just old, but totally out of it. If my choices are Trump and Biden, of course I'm voting for the latter, but between Trump's unchecked lies and Biden's inability to articulate anything, I am feeling nothing but despair.
Yep. That response stood out to me too. Pivoting from one of your best issues to your worst issue is political malpractice.
I was watching in a theater and I started screaming at that point
I'm with you, Aaron. All of what you said, plus it's early for debating (as tsk-tsking pundits kept pointing out last week) and there's time for the Biden campaign to recover while people aren't entirely tuned into the election yet. We're heading into July 4 holiday week, and after that all the commentary will be about Trump's upcoming sentencing. And of course Trump won't stop talking, and last night will only encourage him to brag incessantly about how he won, and to keep telling ever more outrageous lies. Hubris, his conviction that he's invincible, will bring him down eventually. We just have to hope "eventually" is around mid September.
The focus on Trump, what he was saying, if one could, absorb it : the lies and the shit-talking. I mean the insulting denigration of our basically good country with good people "on both sides" but specifically about the country and the Democrats as if there should only be the Trump party. May this perversely help Biden.
I read that Biden was battling a cold- was over prepped.. either or both. I can imagine he was nervous and had his speech and hoarseness as a result. But again this made people focus on Trump as the alternative. Biden's one night bomb or this Trump monster, not just last night's performance either. Biden cannot save the country alone. He needs help.. all hands on deck. In the meantime there is panic amongst those out there asking for another candidate and this does more harm than the debate itself. It will be sorted out at the D convention. Maybe the R convention too. Hang onto your socks.
I'm just not willing to accept any excuses at this point. Biden was sequestered at Camp David for a week preparing. You gotta overcome minor illnesses when the stakes are this high. Not to say he can't battle back from this and still win -- I think he can -- but I'm not gonna dismiss what I saw based on a cold.
Love ya Aaron. I have an anger about Biden's running again that I am putting aside. And NO ONE stepped up on the Democratic side to challenge him out of deference. .. including Bernie Sanders who knew he passed his time and whom I much preferred. I put all this aside because this is the choice unless something unusual happens. We are in for it either way! And even if Biden was not running. Get ready.
If we want an experienced person, who has been around the track a lot over the years, who knows what he is doing especially at this time to go after a novice con (even a G. Bush who got us into a lot of trouble) or even green Obama who let us down about hope and change trying to triangulate, then we have to deal with age and infirmity.
Panic and anger helps Trump.
Banging on Biden and asking Democrats to change course helps Trump UNLESS we are SERIOUS and have someone at the ready at this point. Do we?
WE must learn that we made and make choices with hope and somewhat blindly and will have to make choices with all the upsides and downsides in this imperfect democracy. We need to engage in this process with respect and understanding for human capacity. POTUS is an extraordinary job and no one human can do it perfectly every day every moment and make no mistake even in policy/foreign affairs ( as Biden done too) But the alternative choice is more than just unacceptable.
Emerson said : 'Things are in the saddle and ride mankind'
Thank you for your important work... the kids must be beautiful by now, not seen but glad you are protecting them.
Also who do we want to trade Biden for if we all could agree? And would they? Don't forget Biden was a consensus candidate and really not a good campaigner, did not do well at the debates, to begin with. South Carolina's James Clyburn pushed this and spoke for the black vote. Then the ball got rolling. Oh but Biden was so young then. I do remember he said he was going to be a transitional prez and thinking he was old and probably will have one term. And then he picked Kamala Harris to (I think) do a good deed, to follow him, to promote her, and woman and one of "color" too. She has not clicked, did not click to begin with, though I am sure she would be fine in the role of prez, but also not popular, attracting negativity. We are in a bad place in this country politically with this disease on the right. Biden chose to do as best as he could and, admit it, he did a lot and was alot more liberal than it seemed he would be which is bold for these times.The far left quieted down, no?. But Democrats don't fight back the force of lies, misinformation and hate that has taken over much of the country and has taken hold. People,many and not all, are lazy busy and "getting and spending" .. selfish. Maybe we get what we deserve.
So what do we need to go forward in aa positive hopeful way and are we going to get it? A bullfighter? Both houses? A lot of unchanneled in your face loud, coherent, grabbing hold of morality and truth and capturing of the hungry "responsible" media's attention? Wishful. My mate here is ready to get rid of Biden now though heretofore not or a maybe we should. It's the barrage of the negatives about last night which maybe brought realization. Are we kidding ourselves that Biden, though he has an excellent record (save Gaza) can prevail give the propaganda machine, ignorance vulnerability of the voters and the knee jerk need to vote GOP regardless?
Who Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer? Who. I like Sheldon Whitehouse. I like Jay Inslee. Are they going to do it for us? Sherrod Brown? We got lots. I like Elizabeth Warren.
Is this realistic? Do they or anyone else you can think of have the stomach, the money, the administration at the ready??
Read Heather Cox Richardson on this “debate” . Excellent. Substack about the June 27 debate. Get a grip Aaron. The cold as far as I know did not come from any credible source but certainly would be a reason for giving some room for not punching hard. But Heather gets it right overall. https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/june-27-2024?r=x4y22&utm_medium=ios
Aaron, I agree with you. I think Biden and his administration have done a stellar job, but we need a strong candidate who’s a great orator to run and knock Trump down into the hole he crawled out of.
Biden had one job, to counter the narrative that he is too old for another term. He blew it, his advisors blew it, Ron Klain blew it. Watching him made me feel old and I’m only 75. Where was State of the Union Biden? I understand the stutter and maybe a cold, but he rarely had a cogent response to Trump’s well-chosen attacks. Not well-chosen because they were true but because the right response required a calm refutation of the lies with mastery of the facts. Again, what were Klain et al prepping him for if not for the ability to fact-check Trump in real time?
I'm eager to read the oral history of what happened this past week at Camp David. It wasn't anything good.
It truly was heartbreaking to watch, no denying. Part of the problem it seems was the intensive prep of Biden. Rather than having him ramble facts and figures, the focus should have been on attacking the firehouse of lies we all knew Trump would spew.
Everyone in my orbit is a big Biden fan and agree with your assessment. This was a failure; a lost opportunity which only served to reinforce the too old issue.
Also HCR as always was on point. Here’s her letter:
https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/june-27-2024?r=9qjn9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
As I said below this is too much to ask of Biden-- at any age even. A firehose of lies is Trump's modus operandi as well as denigrating the country, the media, the Democrats, immigrants, etc etc. This covers millions of people that have to swallow this and know better!
It's not fair to Biden who has done a decent job as leader, some say very very well, to expect him to slay this monster alone and in one night. Yet people are in a panic and this does not help and may help Trump perversely.
I love HCR and will now go to read her take.
Was it Biden’s job to debate trump’s lies or to answer CNNs questions? He couldn’t win one way or another and got flustered trying to do both. Biden might have done both if not suffering cold & more Mountain Dew available.
I read a couple of comments saying he had a cold. This may or may not be true. It's not widely said nor may not be true but an excuse for those who need to have a reason for the bad performance. So it may or may not be true, but at this point in the game let people believe it if they need a reason to get out of their panic for this night. They need to get a grip on this response and perspective. I totally agree, any other D candidate would not have been able to deal with the firehose of lies and denigration. And CNN was not willing or able. Now we think/know the format was bad for Biden, better for Trump. Maybe Trump took some drug or this is his natural, but he accused Biden of doing this prior to the debate remember. Biden needed one, a mild tranquilzer. If anyone who has been paying attention steps back and looks in perspective there have been many more incoherent rantings we have glimpses of that were questioning Trump's mental capacity to rule, more than Biden has suffered. Biden forgets names ( common in elderly) and gets flustered, stutters. He was probably, most likely, very nervous and "over prepped". This is one night. 100 million viewers supposedly. Trump has been exposing his atrocious mental state and lies to cheering crowds in channelled vetted partisan audiences for years and more lately. At CNN he was protected from the boos he would have gotten for all the lies.
I hope others are as forgiving as you are of Biden. Many are very angry. Democrats are fickle. Republicans, especially after the party has been cleansed of the principled, and the yahoos are in lockstep, in thrall to Trump.. and willing to destroy the country as we know it.
This is the issue. I hope we get a grip.
agree with you entirely, Aaron. the emotional responses saying Joe's got to go this minute are hot takes, which are almost always terrible. but the serious concerns raised last night can't be waved away and must be dealt with by Biden and his campaign.
that said, the format at least with Joe where he was last night seemed to favor Trump. and the useless moderators who basically gave Trump the biggest audience he's had since he was in the WH to spew outrageous lies without pushback or fact-checks. wonder if the no-live-fact-check decision was behind closed doors to mollify Trump's people, who complained bitterly that there would be any fact-checking at all. but the result is that millions who haven't been paying attention and watched last night heard a firehose of rotten lies and believes them.
anyway, not the night we expected and a deeply concerning performance by Biden, but he deserves a proper opportunity to explain what happened and again try to convince the American people he's up for the job, and we mustn't make decisions based on panic.
was sickening, watching Trump spewing garbage over and over, while the supposed moderators kept time and asked the next question.
as much as I want to know how we ended up with the Biden performance we got last night, I want to know how CNN arrived at the no-live-fact-checks decision. it was fateful in that it gave Trump a huge advantage while Biden's rotten night got the headlines. I mean, everyone is reporting how Trump lied but bafflingly many of us seem to have priced that in, as if he could possibly be a decent president when he's...everything he is, and corrupt as the day is long.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lesley. Now we wait and see how the debate impacts polling, if it does at all. And if Biden does take a significant dip, then things could get interesting. The thing to watch is whether prominent Dems start calling for Biden to step aside. They haven't so far and I don't expect them to, but I don't think it can be totally ruled out after last night.
The NY Times did a fairly good job fact checking real time. The lies were coming fast and furiously and they are repeated lies and should have been at hand and close captioned, but I don't know if that was possible. Maybe CNN did not want to show bias against Trump because every time he opens his mouth he lies. There will be a lot of fact checking after the fact and lord help us again regarding folks who don't tune in and just base there choice, if they were really undecided, on last night and according to presentation and not substance.
I don't think millions believe the barrage of rotten lies. They are all of of piece. You have to buy this denigration of our people our country and Democrats, and buy that Trump is gonna fix it.
If millions believe this, millions do not. Trump was exposed... too!!
I think even worse than not fact checking, which I kind of expected, was not calling him out for not answering the question. Letting him talk about the border for the January 6th question and then only weakly asking it again was malpractice by the moderators.
The bar was set extremely low for Biden, and he couldn’t even meet or exceed the bar. I’m sure this will blow over and my main hope is that tonight’s performance wasn’t a sign of something cognitively deeper for Biden.
This won’t sway the polls too much as most people are pretty dug in. This just shows a glaring weakness for Biden and I hope it doesn’t sway votes in a meaningful way
The only good to come from last night’s abysmal performance by Biden is that I was able to raise over 300$ for the abortion care training program at the uni I work for. The fund offsets the travel cost for students in need who have to travel to Oregon to learn the full scope of obgyn care.
That's great news, Kim!
Thank you. I can’t wait to tell one of the ladies who works for that program. She’s gonna be thrilled. If September’s rematch goes off, I’ll raise $$ for the Yellowhammer Fund.