Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk are not your friends
Gavin Newsom's new podcast demonstrates a failed way of engaging with MAGA extremists.
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California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s new podcast, “This Is Gavin Newsom,” might appear at first blush to be a move in the right direction. Mainstream Democrats have been slow to fully embrace non-traditional media and connect with key voters where they are most likely to watch or listen. Newsom’s podcast represents an effort to change that.
But unfortunately, since its launch earlier this month, Newsom has platformed a menagerie of far-right provocateurs, including Charlie Kirk, Michael Savage, and Steve Bannon. Who’s next — Chaya Raichik from Libs of TikTok?
It’s not a secret Newsom wants to be president, and perhaps he interpreted Kamala Harris’s defeat as evidence that Democrats have shifted too far to the left and are out of touch with “average” Americans. That’s often how Democrats process defeat, but it’s not 2004 anymore. The last thing Democrats need right now is a liberal-hosted podcast showcasing guests who spent the past decade spreading the very propaganda and disinformation that returned Donald Trump to power and is tearing down our democracy.
Initial response to Newsom’s podcast has borne out that nobody really wants what he’s selling: A recent poll of California voters reveals his favorability among Democrats has dropped significantly since he launched his podcast, and he’s gained no ground among Republicans. That’s not a shock. After listening to the first few episodes of “This Is Gavin Newsom,” it’s clear that Newsom isn’t interested in aggressively confronting his guests and exposing them for what they really are. Instead, he’s sanitizing extremists for a left-of-center audience.
The podcast’s entire premise is rooted in an outdated both-sides view of liberals and conservatives: “It’s time to have honest discussions with people that agree AND disagree with us. It's time to answer the hard questions and be open to criticism, and debate without demeaning or dehumanizing one other.”
That sounds nice, but it’s incredibly naive to believe that Kirk, Savage, or Bannon are interested in good-faith debate with people who disagree with them. They actively demonize and “other” their political opponents and anyone who’s simply different, yet Newsom engages with them as if they have reasonable perspectives and coherent policy positions.
Amplifying the views of people who want to torch our democracy — and are actually doing so right now! — is an incredibly irresponsible and dangerous exercise. It also shows how out of touch Newsom is with our current political moment.
An exercise in normalization
To be clear, there’s merit in engaging with your political opposition. In recent years, for example, Pete Buttigieg has regularly appeared on Fox News, where his objective is to reach people who might never hear the liberal side of issues (or even factual arguments). He remains scrupulously on message and dismantles right-wing talking points in a hostile environment. Democratic political strategist Jessica Tarlov is an equally effective political communicator as a co-host on “The Five.”
Newsom, however, seems completely out of his element with his far-right guests. Bannon, a convicted felon, mostly dog-walked the governor during a conversation that the New York Times generously described as “friendly sparring.” Within less than a minute, they were actually joking about tariffs, which Trump is using to wage economic war against our closest ally, Canada. Newsom said he’s not an “absolutist as it relates to being against tariffs” and sounded like a Fox News host when he told his listeners that Democrats didn’t “scream and yell” when Joe Biden tripled tariffs on Chinese metals.
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Anyone not deeply plugged into politics could be forgiven for listening to this interview and coming away thinking that Bannon is a reasonable guy, a self-proclaimed “Kennedy Democrat.” Newsom let Bannon spin his “America First” ideology as working-class populism for people of all creeds and colors. Of course, Bannon later referred to Elizabeth Warren as “Pocahontas,” a racist slur, which Newsom only meekly corrected rather than directly tying it to Bannon’s demonstrated history of racist rhetoric, specifically the “Great Replacement” conspiracy theory that he’s repeatedly promoted on his podcast.
Even worse, Newsom offered little pushback as Bannon spread his usual lies about the 2020 election. Bannon said “we disagree” that Biden won and Trump lost as if it’s a matter of spirited debate and not a democracy-destroying whopper. Newsom didn’t call out Bannon for fanning the flames of the Big Lie or mention that Bannon had told his podcast listeners on January 5 that “all hell is going to break loose tomorrow.”
Newsom never even brought up that Bannon was jailed for contempt after he defied a subpoena from the January 6 committee. He didn’t press Bannon on his “flood the zone with shit” strategy that has destroyed modern politics and that Trump has used to horrifying effect so far in his second term. No, Newsom just maintained a polite dinner party discussion.
Newsom took the same approach to his interview with rightwing commentator Michael Savage, who MSNBC fired in 2003 when he angrily told a caller, “You should only get AIDS and die, you pig.” Savage said in January that Trump should reinstate his Muslim ban and shut down mosques. Newsom never confronted his bigotry. Instead, they chatted cordially like old friends.
Newsom fawned over his first guest Charlie Kirk’s “next-level” TikTok posts and revealed his 13-year-old son is a fan. That’s disturbing considering Kirk is a bigot and misogynist, who complained during the 2024 campaign that women might “undermine their husbands” and vote for Kamala Harris.
The interview made headlines because Newsom said he was “aligned” with Kirk on trans issues. He claimed it was “deeply unfair” for trans women to play women’s sports and seemed to agree with Kirk about restrictions on gender affirming care. (Watch below.)
Kirk, for what it’s worth, seemed surprised that Newsom was so fawning.
“Governor Newsom was being over-effusive in his praise of me,” Kirk said on a subsequent edition of his show, adding that he believes Newsom “has done unspeakable harm to the great people of California.”
It’s disappointing that Newsom would legitimize Kirk’s transphobia when Republicans have demonstrated over and over in recent years that they’re not interested in “fairness” for women or anyone else.
Trump is throwing trans people out of the military on openly bigoted grounds. Republicans at the state and federal level are seeking to force trans people out of public life. Yet rather than challenge Kirk’s repulsive views about trans people, Newsom seems open to abandoning a vulnerable group that’s under relentless attack because he believes it advances his political ambitions.
Some people just need to be shunned
Newsom defenders have argued that it’s a smart move for the governor to rebrand himself. After all, the party just nominated a California liberal and lost, so Democratic voters might need some convincing before choosing another of his kind.
But while Newsom has a history of challenging rightwing extremists — see his impressive performance against Ron DeSantis during their 2023 Fox News debate — he now seems eager cozy up to them.
Newsom told Savage he’s “fascinated” by Putin patsy Tucker Carlson, who he considers “smart” and would love to have on his show. And Newsom seemed almost desperate to be pals with Steve Bannon by the end of their interview, going as far as to tell him “I appreciate your advocacy.” (Watch below — clip via Yashar.)
It’s possible that Newsom — whose most recent episode features a more characteristic interview with Tim Walz — is learning from his mistakes. But if he wants his show to be a place where Democrats take bold stands on issues like trans rights, he might consider booking an actual trans person instead of hosting one white guy after the next.
There’s nothing wrong with truly reaching across the aisle to Republicans who still support democracy and basic tolerance, and it’s not Newsom’s fault that conservatives of that sort have become an endangered species. But there’s no value in pretending that the likes of Bannon and Kirk are anything more than propagandists for a hateful and destructive cause. And it’s not like there’s a shortage of Democrats who Newsom could engage in substantive and compelling debates.
The current Donald Trump/Elon Musk horror show demands a strong opposition party with leaders who are willing to fight, not submit. Newsom’s podcast has shown more of the latter than the former. If “This is Gavin Newsom” is meant to serve as a 2028 audition, he’s stumbled out of the gates.
That’s it for today
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Agreed. I thought Gavin was doing it almost as a MAGA exposé but it’s more propaganda than anything. Such an odd choice, and terrible optics.
As a Californian, I am appalled by Newsom’s platforming of these 3 deplorables. I have completely lost all respect for him. I thought he was a pro democracy advocate but these actions proved otherwise. He shot himself in the foot and then some.