Considering the atrocities committed in the name of religion, both current and throughout history, l am of the mindset we need “freedom from religion”in addition to “freedom of religion”
The founders put it in the Constitution for a reason. Religion is a personal choice. When I see politics colliding with religion, I feel thumped. You worry about your own soul, and I will take care of my own.
It goes deeper. Democrats have been committed to science since the New Deal, a rational way to solve the crisis at hand. For the last hundred years, voters have supported reason over emotion in times of distress: war, financial emergency, etc. When the storm has passed, we go back to feeling our way. The next calamity (financial, environmental, military) will force another return to reason.
Fairy tales at bedtime are the gateway drugs. If you believe those, you'll believe any thing. We're left with, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" or, "Beat 'em at their own game." The First Amendment doesn't specifically mandate freedom from religion but the intent was there. It's madness how much power some fools wield in the name of religion.
People of faith who are more attuned to faith than they are to politics should eventually grasp that all of the fearmongering about “the other” or change is actually contrary to their faith.
Not necessarily. You're operating under the assumption that faith is a good thing. Evangelicals are just as faithful (if not moreso) as any other Christian, it's just that their faith is cruel, bigoted, and evil.
My only knowledge of evangelicals is second or third hand, especially from authors like Tim Alberta and Bradley Onishi. Whatever that tradition once was, it seems wholly political now.
It was always political. The evangelical movement as we know it today grew out of opposition to desegregation. They just switched to anti-abortion and transphobia when desegregation became too politically toxic.
More than that. Mainline Protestant Christianity isn't too far off something like the SBC. It's mainly a matter of how open they are about it.
The honest ones will admit they're bigots for Jesus, the dishonest ones claim not to be but vote Republican anyway, and the dishonest and cowardly ones sit on the sidelines screaming #NOTALLCHRISTIANS😭😫😭😫😭😫😭😫😭😫 whenever anyone dares criticize the cross club instead of doing anything that might require introspection or endanger the privileged position Christianity has.
Plus, Reactionary Christians have openly ruled the country with every Republican presidency for decades.
That's not even getting into how they've shaped the politics of the country since it's the fucking mayflower landed.
The main thing that Sen. Murphy, James Talarico, and Gov. Shapiro have in common is decency, something no one in the felon’s regime can honestly claim. The other value they represent is a denouncement of the moral rot that is apparent in today’s GOP.
The use of alcohol, drugs, and the infidelity represented by a majority of cabinet members is anathema to many Americans. We can and must do better in the coming years to gain back the trust of our citizens, as well as the world.
I’m a progressive Hispanic evangelical, I was against Trump since the moment he was coming down those escalators based on biblical principles, I’m pro choice, pro science and pro diversity and I believe in evolution, all that based on the Bible, my wife is the same way, most of my social media friends are atheists or belong to other religions, I think Talarico is doing the right thing and he is opening the door for democrats to become the party of faith and tolerance.
First, I would hate to see the Dems become the party of faith. One’s faith should have no bearing on American politics. Second, I can’t imagine many of these people who use their faith to support the likes of Donald Trump have any interest in the values they profess. They are more interested in the power they gain by using their faith as a source of hatred against the “other.” That is the heart of christo-fascism, which is their true faith. That is why faith should have no role in politics—because it becomes a tool of coercion and exclusion. Behaving with human decency requires no religion and should be the main qualifier of any politician—religiously faithful or not.
The modern evangelical conservative movement DID NOT START WITH THE ANTI-ABORTION FANATICS of Reagan's election in 1980.
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson began their careers opposing desegregation in the early 1960s.
THE KEY WAS RACE. NOT ABORTION.
The US government action against Bob Jones University -- to revoke its non-profit tax status -- was based on that racist school's prohibition of interracial relationships among students.
That's what motivated the televangelists... along with the Sweet Mammon of money.
The Christians in name only who are opponents of Talarico won't let "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" stop them from moving on to the next accusation: "Talarico Eats BBQ with Knife and Fork!"
They aren't "Christians in name only". They're just as legitimately Christian as anyone else. Christianity isn't inherently good or benevolent.
Like it or not, evangelicals are the poster children of Christianity, not an aberration. They're more in line with historical Christianity than MLK ever was.
Right wing, willfully ignorant zealots are the most numerous and politically powerful Christians in existence. Until people stop calling fascist Christians "fake Christians" or "Christians in name only" we will never be able to properly fight their influence.
People who follow Christ--Jesus--know they cannot repeatedly lie about their neighbor, or repeatedly ignore the Sermon on the Mount, and be viewed as representative of that faith.
I did not single out evangelicals, but I strongly disagree that they are "the poster children of Christianity." What are you saying about non-evangelical Christians?
While I respect your choice on how to fight zealotry, I will continue to fight with other faith leaders who focus on hypocrisy, in each zealot, regardless of faith. Thank you for the dialogue.
1: Jesus wasn't that great if you actually read the goddamn book instead of ignoring the inconvenient parts like when he says that he's come to set father against son, brother against brother and so on. Or the part where he says that anyone not willing to betray their own family for him isn't welcome in his club. Or the part in Matthew 13:10 where he flat out admits to deceiving people he doesn't want to save.
2: What I'm saying about non-evangelicals is that they aren't the representative sample of the faith. They're less numerous and less politically powerful than right wing zealots are. You're all Christians.
3: we can't Jesus our way out of a problem that was caused by too much jesusing to begin with.
This article fails to recognize what’s happened in Protestantism since the ‘80s. Talarico represents a tiny fraction of today’s practicing Protestants, with a far greater share essentially in a mind-control cult of power that, ironically, Jesus would surely label as “Pharisees” were He teleported in time to witness it. These followers likely are never to be recovered. Like any civil war, the fundamentalists have more enmity for a Christian they don’t really consider a Christian than they do others who have no faith or don’t show up at a church. You can be sure Talarico will be a giant lightning rod for them. This enmity will, most likely, create doubt and confusion among the non-practicing, Mormon, and Catholic Christians we need to win elections.
Perhaps it's an opportunity but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of white evangelicals hold conservative poltical views. Good luck to those who feel they can persuade more than a few of them to vote for Democrats or at least not for blatantly un-Christian ones like Trump. But I will take a lot of persuading that it's a cost effective strategy for winning elections.
Yeah. Appealing to Christianity isn't going to win more votes for Democrats for the same reason that throwing trans people or pregnant people under the bus won't. There's already one party that's all in on Christianity, and it's the Republicans.
I hope Democrats don't become a party of faith. We already have Republicans. We don't need another theocratic party. The whole idea that faith is a good thing in and of itself is absurd and is an inherently Republican framing.
Faith is, at best, neutral. And most of the faith we have in this country is a whole lot worse.
I want Democrats to be a party of science and ethics untainted by Christian theology. We've been suffering from the faith of Christian zealots ever since the country was founded by a batch of the worst kind of unhinged reactionaries Europe ever produced.
Considering the atrocities committed in the name of religion, both current and throughout history, l am of the mindset we need “freedom from religion”in addition to “freedom of religion”
The founders put it in the Constitution for a reason. Religion is a personal choice. When I see politics colliding with religion, I feel thumped. You worry about your own soul, and I will take care of my own.
If anything, in this day and age we need freedom from religion more than we need freedom of religion.
💯% .
It goes deeper. Democrats have been committed to science since the New Deal, a rational way to solve the crisis at hand. For the last hundred years, voters have supported reason over emotion in times of distress: war, financial emergency, etc. When the storm has passed, we go back to feeling our way. The next calamity (financial, environmental, military) will force another return to reason.
Party of faith? Why? How’s about the party of the people? And leave the hypocrisy where it belongs: the right wing.
Fairy tales at bedtime are the gateway drugs. If you believe those, you'll believe any thing. We're left with, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" or, "Beat 'em at their own game." The First Amendment doesn't specifically mandate freedom from religion but the intent was there. It's madness how much power some fools wield in the name of religion.
The common thread is essentially classic virtues: tolerance, humility, loving kindness, compassion, prudence, generosity.
Not coincidentally, the Founders incorporated the virtues as underlying the principles of the Constitution.
One doesn't need religion to behave ethically or morally.
The perfect embodiment of Trump-era Christianity is Andrew Tate.
People of faith who are more attuned to faith than they are to politics should eventually grasp that all of the fearmongering about “the other” or change is actually contrary to their faith.
Not necessarily. You're operating under the assumption that faith is a good thing. Evangelicals are just as faithful (if not moreso) as any other Christian, it's just that their faith is cruel, bigoted, and evil.
I refer to faith in a loving Creator.
My only knowledge of evangelicals is second or third hand, especially from authors like Tim Alberta and Bradley Onishi. Whatever that tradition once was, it seems wholly political now.
It was always political. The evangelical movement as we know it today grew out of opposition to desegregation. They just switched to anti-abortion and transphobia when desegregation became too politically toxic.
But that wing of evangelicalism is about 13-15% of the population.
More than that. Mainline Protestant Christianity isn't too far off something like the SBC. It's mainly a matter of how open they are about it.
The honest ones will admit they're bigots for Jesus, the dishonest ones claim not to be but vote Republican anyway, and the dishonest and cowardly ones sit on the sidelines screaming #NOTALLCHRISTIANS😭😫😭😫😭😫😭😫😭😫 whenever anyone dares criticize the cross club instead of doing anything that might require introspection or endanger the privileged position Christianity has.
Plus, Reactionary Christians have openly ruled the country with every Republican presidency for decades.
That's not even getting into how they've shaped the politics of the country since it's the fucking mayflower landed.
Are you familiar with Interfaith Alliance?
The main thing that Sen. Murphy, James Talarico, and Gov. Shapiro have in common is decency, something no one in the felon’s regime can honestly claim. The other value they represent is a denouncement of the moral rot that is apparent in today’s GOP.
The use of alcohol, drugs, and the infidelity represented by a majority of cabinet members is anathema to many Americans. We can and must do better in the coming years to gain back the trust of our citizens, as well as the world.
I’m a progressive Hispanic evangelical, I was against Trump since the moment he was coming down those escalators based on biblical principles, I’m pro choice, pro science and pro diversity and I believe in evolution, all that based on the Bible, my wife is the same way, most of my social media friends are atheists or belong to other religions, I think Talarico is doing the right thing and he is opening the door for democrats to become the party of faith and tolerance.
No. Keep religion, and especially Christianity as far away from politics as possible. We've already seen what happens when you mix the two.
First, I would hate to see the Dems become the party of faith. One’s faith should have no bearing on American politics. Second, I can’t imagine many of these people who use their faith to support the likes of Donald Trump have any interest in the values they profess. They are more interested in the power they gain by using their faith as a source of hatred against the “other.” That is the heart of christo-fascism, which is their true faith. That is why faith should have no role in politics—because it becomes a tool of coercion and exclusion. Behaving with human decency requires no religion and should be the main qualifier of any politician—religiously faithful or not.
No, Aaron and David,
The modern evangelical conservative movement DID NOT START WITH THE ANTI-ABORTION FANATICS of Reagan's election in 1980.
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson began their careers opposing desegregation in the early 1960s.
THE KEY WAS RACE. NOT ABORTION.
The US government action against Bob Jones University -- to revoke its non-profit tax status -- was based on that racist school's prohibition of interracial relationships among students.
That's what motivated the televangelists... along with the Sweet Mammon of money.
Get your history right.
The Christians in name only who are opponents of Talarico won't let "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" stop them from moving on to the next accusation: "Talarico Eats BBQ with Knife and Fork!"
They aren't "Christians in name only". They're just as legitimately Christian as anyone else. Christianity isn't inherently good or benevolent.
Like it or not, evangelicals are the poster children of Christianity, not an aberration. They're more in line with historical Christianity than MLK ever was.
Right wing, willfully ignorant zealots are the most numerous and politically powerful Christians in existence. Until people stop calling fascist Christians "fake Christians" or "Christians in name only" we will never be able to properly fight their influence.
People who follow Christ--Jesus--know they cannot repeatedly lie about their neighbor, or repeatedly ignore the Sermon on the Mount, and be viewed as representative of that faith.
I did not single out evangelicals, but I strongly disagree that they are "the poster children of Christianity." What are you saying about non-evangelical Christians?
While I respect your choice on how to fight zealotry, I will continue to fight with other faith leaders who focus on hypocrisy, in each zealot, regardless of faith. Thank you for the dialogue.
1: Jesus wasn't that great if you actually read the goddamn book instead of ignoring the inconvenient parts like when he says that he's come to set father against son, brother against brother and so on. Or the part where he says that anyone not willing to betray their own family for him isn't welcome in his club. Or the part in Matthew 13:10 where he flat out admits to deceiving people he doesn't want to save.
2: What I'm saying about non-evangelicals is that they aren't the representative sample of the faith. They're less numerous and less politically powerful than right wing zealots are. You're all Christians.
3: we can't Jesus our way out of a problem that was caused by too much jesusing to begin with.
You can make your points without accusations and assumptions. And you have made your points, for all to see.
I still thank you for the dialogue.
I didn't accuse you of anything...
This article fails to recognize what’s happened in Protestantism since the ‘80s. Talarico represents a tiny fraction of today’s practicing Protestants, with a far greater share essentially in a mind-control cult of power that, ironically, Jesus would surely label as “Pharisees” were He teleported in time to witness it. These followers likely are never to be recovered. Like any civil war, the fundamentalists have more enmity for a Christian they don’t really consider a Christian than they do others who have no faith or don’t show up at a church. You can be sure Talarico will be a giant lightning rod for them. This enmity will, most likely, create doubt and confusion among the non-practicing, Mormon, and Catholic Christians we need to win elections.
Perhaps it's an opportunity but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of white evangelicals hold conservative poltical views. Good luck to those who feel they can persuade more than a few of them to vote for Democrats or at least not for blatantly un-Christian ones like Trump. But I will take a lot of persuading that it's a cost effective strategy for winning elections.
Yeah. Appealing to Christianity isn't going to win more votes for Democrats for the same reason that throwing trans people or pregnant people under the bus won't. There's already one party that's all in on Christianity, and it's the Republicans.
I hope Democrats don't become a party of faith. We already have Republicans. We don't need another theocratic party. The whole idea that faith is a good thing in and of itself is absurd and is an inherently Republican framing.
Faith is, at best, neutral. And most of the faith we have in this country is a whole lot worse.
I want Democrats to be a party of science and ethics untainted by Christian theology. We've been suffering from the faith of Christian zealots ever since the country was founded by a batch of the worst kind of unhinged reactionaries Europe ever produced.