If Trump were honest (obviously, he's not) he would blame himself for the political violence we're encountering. If Trump were any kind of leader any American should want, he would think about how to lead by setting a good example instead of continuing to subject America to Trump's Bad President reality TV show.
Only a week before Kirk's political murder, Trump and Hegseth publicly admitted--they publicly boasted--that they murdered 11 people on a boat off the coast of Venezuela. Those killings were at least as blatantly political as Kirk's killing. And Trump boasted that he would kill again if given the chance. To this day Trump and Hegseth still haven't informed us of the identity or citizenship of any person on that boat or of any fact tending to establish any reason any person was on that boat.
As a fairly famous SCOTUS decision, Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966), quoting the wise and great Justice Brandeis (joined by the wise and great Justice Holmes) dissenting in Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438 (1928)) put it:
"Our Government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
I have to agree with the comment that “you reap what you sow," and I'd like to see someone explain how Charlie Kirk got anything other than what he advocated.
Charlie Kirk got exactly what he said America deserves. There's no reason to think Kirk's killing was more tragic than Kirk thought of other deaths due to gun violence. Kirk's own words are most relevant to whether Kirk's killing was tragic or just a sort of poetic justice:
"I think it’s worth it to have [ ] gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
To use Kirk's own words, Kirk was one of the "gun deaths every single year" that Kirk actually advocated "to protect our other God-given rights," and that's exactly what he got. Kirk, himself, supported what happened to him. As Kirk said, "I think it’s worth it." "That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
"That’s all I have to say—no great thoughts, no words of wisdom, nothing but a quote I remember from an Jungle Jim movie from the 1950s, where after the notionally-Soviet bad guys, killed by a radioactive meteor (or something like that) they were trying to smuggle out of whichever backlot jungle Columbia Pictures shot in, are found by our heroes, an old scientist blandly observes, 'Poetic Justice, I’d Say….'"
Kirk said even more that revealed the symmetry between his own words and his own death. Kirk's statement that I quoted above included his insistence that "The Second Amendment is there" precisely "so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government."
On The Charlie Kirk Show also in 2023 Kirk even advocated (at least) buying and actively bearing arms in public because "You have a government that hates you. You have a traitor as the president. Buy weapons, I keep on saying that. Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you." https://www.newsweek.com/bluesky-chariie-kirk-assassination-warning-2128023
Michael, for people who want to exploit events for their own purposes, waiting for the facts is the problem. Before they learn the truth, they're just making stuff up. After they learn the truth, they'd be lying.
Your statement rings true Jack, though I'd suggest that to most people wanting to exploit events for their own (poltical) purposes lying is no problem to them.
Michael, I think you're right about their psychology. Even so, the ones who think they're being clever may be hiding behind a legal standard. SCOTUS precedent (starting with New York Times Co. v. Sullivan) emphasized that our Constitution precludes using courts to hold a person liable for a mere falsehood about another person (at least if that person is a public official or a public figure). A plaintiff would have to prove "actual malice," i.e., that the speaker actually knew or he should have known his statement was false.
Not that that stops them! I read some insane piece claiming Tyler Robinson is actually a Trans Activist, and killed Charlie Kirk for his Transphobia.... 🤦♂️
That is such a blatant attempt to shift blame onto the Left by the Republican Party and Trump Right that it's...wholly predictable, actually.
The mental gymnastics of Kirk and so many others is astounding:
Kirk:
“I think it’s worth it to have gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.”
The Bible:
Thou shalt not kill, commit adultery, etc. …
Fascism is not just a political ideology, it is a mental disorder.
It should be added to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the standard tool for identifying and labeling mental illness. Not in a way to justify their behavior, but as a way to recognize what strategies can be effective. Logic doesn’t work for them and their followers.
Fascism is great at lighting up the emotional centers of the brain. To fight it, we need to do the same.
The gaslighting continues when politicians, pundits, "social media influencers", and journalists ask what they consider a central question about "How could a person like this be radicalized?" My attention level drops several notches just hearing that question. This is not a civil nor considerate timeline.
Under “That’s it for today”, you mention a Saturday edition tomorrow. 🤔
You are so right, the only free speech the MAGA want is for them to be able to lie. It is a breath of fresh air to be able to access your writings & those of others like you here & know I don’t have to question & check what I have read. Thank you.
Violence inciting maga lunatics said nothing about the murder of a MN legislator and her husband by a maga cultist. I wonder why... As dimwitted, weak dems continue to play defense, The right incites violence with every fascist breath they take, every arrest they make of innocent children, parents, and even American citizens for not having proper ID. The right pardons j/6 felons who attacked law enforcement that led to the death of 3 or ore while they pushed gallows demanding the hanging of Mike Pence. From Charlottesville and the murder of Heather Heyer, to the right's killer kid Rittenhouse, to Dylan Roof, to Sandy Hook, to maga killer who shoy and killed FBI agent and just missed trump. To the kidnap plot of Gretchen Whitmer and the showof arms at the MI Capitol. From Timothy McVeigh,to the Unibomber, to the crazy who sent pipe boms to Obama offices. I do not put myself in that company. They are all right wing murderers. The FBI determined that right wing militias were the biggest domestic terrorist concern. Fox and Freaks Brian Kilmeade had to finally apologize for promoting the execution of the homeless. He might be looking for a job with HHS... musk and marco are systematically killing hundreds of thousands of people after shuttering USAID, and the total deaths could reach 14 million. Hitler would blush at those number. And the right mercilessly mocked the near death of Paul Prlosi from a maga maniac. That was areal hoot on the maga circuit. This is not a both sides issue. One side promotes death and destruction and the other side tries to improve the lives of everyone with legislation not violence and bullets.he right is a cult of death merchants.
The bottom line is we can’t rely on regular media, institutions or even most Dem leaders to call bullshit on this whole Kirk crap. He was a vile pos not oh he’s doing politics right crap…. Looking at you Ezra Klein. It’s up to us, the people and the few independent media out there to call bullshit and point to the orange rapist as the problem.
"Let us not make the same mistake that the German Psychiatric Association did in the 1930’s…. If we are silent about the numerous ways in which Donald Trump has repeatedly threatened violence, incited violence, or boasted about his own violence, we are passively supporting and enabling the dangerous and naive mistake of treating him as if he were a “normal” president or a “normal” political leader. He is not, and it is our duty to say so, and to say it publicly."
It is clear that Trump is grateful for CK to be silenced in his complaints about the Epstein Files, and no one else is talking about them. This is wrong. They should be front and center in the dialogue and even the dialogue about CK. Someone could be pointing out that in honor of CK the MAGAs should pursue the Full disclosure of the Epstein Files.
As for silencing people, I read this in Politico Berlin today,
"PLÖTZLICH CANCEL CULTURE VON RECHTS: Nach kontroversen Äußerungen zum Charlie-Kirk-Attentat sieht sich ZDF-Korrespondent in Washington Elmar Theveßen massiver Kritik ausgesetzt. Am Wochenende schaltete sich der Trump-Sondergesandte Richard Grenell ein und fordert den Visa-Entzug von Theveßen." Which translated means,
"SUDDEN CANCEL CULTURE FROM THE RIGHT: After controversial statements about the Charlie Kirk assassination attempt, ZDF correspondent in Washington Elmar Theveßen is facing massive criticism. Over the weekend, Trump's special envoy Richard Grenell weighed in and called for Theveßen's visa to be revoked."
The US is sounding more and more like Moscow. Cancelling a journalist's visa because of their reporting is a problem. I do not know what Elmar Theveßen said, but I asked and this is what a friend from my political book club told me.
"I researched. Theveßen's statements in questions are from Auslandsjournal (about Stephen Miller): he referred to Stephen Miller's book, and drew a connection between Miller's 'us' and 'them' theory and Third Reich ideology Carl Schmitt (writer, lawyer, political philosopher);
In political discussion show Markus Lanz (about Charlie Kirk): he called him a right-wing extremist, who called for the stoning of gay people. He later redacted/clarified his statement because Kirk didn't call for violence against homosexuals but cited a Bible section where this happened."
So, I see the parallels here too between the US and Russia. Taking a journalist's visa, and Theveßen is the White House Correspondent from one of the 2 largest Public television stations in Germany, where each household pays 18 € a month to support public television and radio so that it can be independent.
Not only is the Trump regime elevating White Supremacist ideas, but it is spreading them around the world. Musk is just awful. Here is him supporting White Supremacy in England.
In Germany one can just be grateful that his elevating the AfD did not put them in first place in the Nordrhein Westfalen elections that were just had yesterday.
I think that I did just put this gross tendency into the category of "hypocrisy" instead of taking a broader viewpoint! Noah, this IS what fascists demand! It's why they say, "you just hate him", if I decry any policies trump wants to inact. If he or Charlie Kirk aren't lauded as a saint or a martyr, then I'm the cruel, insensitive, horrible person.
You have to wonder how long it will be before the MAGA fascists expand from merely taking away people's jobs (firing people) to what Hitler eventually did - disappearing them entirely. Putin has been doing that for a long time. His history of defenestrating officials has long been the punnishment for daring to oppose his edicts.
If Trump were honest (obviously, he's not) he would blame himself for the political violence we're encountering. If Trump were any kind of leader any American should want, he would think about how to lead by setting a good example instead of continuing to subject America to Trump's Bad President reality TV show.
Trump was the candidate who boasted that his supporters would continue to support him even if he murdered someone on 5th Avenue. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-i-could-shoot-somebody-and-i-wouldnt-lose-any-voters/
Only a week before Kirk's political murder, Trump and Hegseth publicly admitted--they publicly boasted--that they murdered 11 people on a boat off the coast of Venezuela. Those killings were at least as blatantly political as Kirk's killing. And Trump boasted that he would kill again if given the chance. To this day Trump and Hegseth still haven't informed us of the identity or citizenship of any person on that boat or of any fact tending to establish any reason any person was on that boat.
As a fairly famous SCOTUS decision, Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966), quoting the wise and great Justice Brandeis (joined by the wise and great Justice Holmes) dissenting in Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438 (1928)) put it:
"Our Government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
Honesty? Reality, in the all-encompassing world of Trump, is whatever occurs at that specific moment.
I have to agree with the comment that “you reap what you sow," and I'd like to see someone explain how Charlie Kirk got anything other than what he advocated.
Charlie Kirk got exactly what he said America deserves. There's no reason to think Kirk's killing was more tragic than Kirk thought of other deaths due to gun violence. Kirk's own words are most relevant to whether Kirk's killing was tragic or just a sort of poetic justice:
"I think it’s worth it to have [ ] gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
– Event organized by TPUSA Faith, the religious arm of Kirk’s conservative group Turning Point USA, on 5 April 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-quotes-beliefs
To use Kirk's own words, Kirk was one of the "gun deaths every single year" that Kirk actually advocated "to protect our other God-given rights," and that's exactly what he got. Kirk, himself, supported what happened to him. As Kirk said, "I think it’s worth it." "That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
As I said in my own piece on Charlie Kirk? (https://open.substack.com/pub/drdarkeny/p/i-guess-ive-got-to-talk-about-charlie )
"That’s all I have to say—no great thoughts, no words of wisdom, nothing but a quote I remember from an Jungle Jim movie from the 1950s, where after the notionally-Soviet bad guys, killed by a radioactive meteor (or something like that) they were trying to smuggle out of whichever backlot jungle Columbia Pictures shot in, are found by our heroes, an old scientist blandly observes, 'Poetic Justice, I’d Say….'"
Kirk said even more that revealed the symmetry between his own words and his own death. Kirk's statement that I quoted above included his insistence that "The Second Amendment is there" precisely "so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government."
On The Charlie Kirk Show also in 2023 Kirk even advocated (at least) buying and actively bearing arms in public because "You have a government that hates you. You have a traitor as the president. Buy weapons, I keep on saying that. Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you." https://www.newsweek.com/bluesky-chariie-kirk-assassination-warning-2128023
Indeed.
What the hell is wrong with shutting up or saying "we just don't know' immediately after assassinations until the facts come out??
Michael, for people who want to exploit events for their own purposes, waiting for the facts is the problem. Before they learn the truth, they're just making stuff up. After they learn the truth, they'd be lying.
Your statement rings true Jack, though I'd suggest that to most people wanting to exploit events for their own (poltical) purposes lying is no problem to them.
Michael, I think you're right about their psychology. Even so, the ones who think they're being clever may be hiding behind a legal standard. SCOTUS precedent (starting with New York Times Co. v. Sullivan) emphasized that our Constitution precludes using courts to hold a person liable for a mere falsehood about another person (at least if that person is a public official or a public figure). A plaintiff would have to prove "actual malice," i.e., that the speaker actually knew or he should have known his statement was false.
Not that that stops them! I read some insane piece claiming Tyler Robinson is actually a Trans Activist, and killed Charlie Kirk for his Transphobia.... 🤦♂️
That is such a blatant attempt to shift blame onto the Left by the Republican Party and Trump Right that it's...wholly predictable, actually.
Hey—make room for George Soros! And don’t forget Barrack and Hillary … so many culprits!
Very true, and I am SO fucking sick of Neoliberals...especially Hillary, Qween of Neolib Evil.
Agreed—they demand to make their point, facts just get in the way.
The mental gymnastics of Kirk and so many others is astounding:
Kirk:
“I think it’s worth it to have gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.”
The Bible:
Thou shalt not kill, commit adultery, etc. …
Fascism is not just a political ideology, it is a mental disorder.
It should be added to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the standard tool for identifying and labeling mental illness. Not in a way to justify their behavior, but as a way to recognize what strategies can be effective. Logic doesn’t work for them and their followers.
Fascism is great at lighting up the emotional centers of the brain. To fight it, we need to do the same.
The gaslighting continues when politicians, pundits, "social media influencers", and journalists ask what they consider a central question about "How could a person like this be radicalized?" My attention level drops several notches just hearing that question. This is not a civil nor considerate timeline.
Under “That’s it for today”, you mention a Saturday edition tomorrow. 🤔
You are so right, the only free speech the MAGA want is for them to be able to lie. It is a breath of fresh air to be able to access your writings & those of others like you here & know I don’t have to question & check what I have read. Thank you.
I love the smell of optimism in the morning …
Violence inciting maga lunatics said nothing about the murder of a MN legislator and her husband by a maga cultist. I wonder why... As dimwitted, weak dems continue to play defense, The right incites violence with every fascist breath they take, every arrest they make of innocent children, parents, and even American citizens for not having proper ID. The right pardons j/6 felons who attacked law enforcement that led to the death of 3 or ore while they pushed gallows demanding the hanging of Mike Pence. From Charlottesville and the murder of Heather Heyer, to the right's killer kid Rittenhouse, to Dylan Roof, to Sandy Hook, to maga killer who shoy and killed FBI agent and just missed trump. To the kidnap plot of Gretchen Whitmer and the showof arms at the MI Capitol. From Timothy McVeigh,to the Unibomber, to the crazy who sent pipe boms to Obama offices. I do not put myself in that company. They are all right wing murderers. The FBI determined that right wing militias were the biggest domestic terrorist concern. Fox and Freaks Brian Kilmeade had to finally apologize for promoting the execution of the homeless. He might be looking for a job with HHS... musk and marco are systematically killing hundreds of thousands of people after shuttering USAID, and the total deaths could reach 14 million. Hitler would blush at those number. And the right mercilessly mocked the near death of Paul Prlosi from a maga maniac. That was areal hoot on the maga circuit. This is not a both sides issue. One side promotes death and destruction and the other side tries to improve the lives of everyone with legislation not violence and bullets.he right is a cult of death merchants.
The bottom line is we can’t rely on regular media, institutions or even most Dem leaders to call bullshit on this whole Kirk crap. He was a vile pos not oh he’s doing politics right crap…. Looking at you Ezra Klein. It’s up to us, the people and the few independent media out there to call bullshit and point to the orange rapist as the problem.
The Contagious Nature of Violence
"Let us not make the same mistake that the German Psychiatric Association did in the 1930’s…. If we are silent about the numerous ways in which Donald Trump has repeatedly threatened violence, incited violence, or boasted about his own violence, we are passively supporting and enabling the dangerous and naive mistake of treating him as if he were a “normal” president or a “normal” political leader. He is not, and it is our duty to say so, and to say it publicly."
https://open.substack.com/pub/bandyxlee/p/violence-begets-violence-d73
Racism, antisemitism, homophobia, misogyny—this is the “free speech” the Trump mob cherishes. To condemn loudly … and allow no reply.
Extremely well put. The unfair attacks on anyone not gaga over Kirk this week has been cruel.
Speaking of repression and free speech, you have to watch this episode of Jon Stewart (right out of 1984) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXNJ3V9lzg
It is clear that Trump is grateful for CK to be silenced in his complaints about the Epstein Files, and no one else is talking about them. This is wrong. They should be front and center in the dialogue and even the dialogue about CK. Someone could be pointing out that in honor of CK the MAGAs should pursue the Full disclosure of the Epstein Files.
As for silencing people, I read this in Politico Berlin today,
"PLÖTZLICH CANCEL CULTURE VON RECHTS: Nach kontroversen Äußerungen zum Charlie-Kirk-Attentat sieht sich ZDF-Korrespondent in Washington Elmar Theveßen massiver Kritik ausgesetzt. Am Wochenende schaltete sich der Trump-Sondergesandte Richard Grenell ein und fordert den Visa-Entzug von Theveßen." Which translated means,
"SUDDEN CANCEL CULTURE FROM THE RIGHT: After controversial statements about the Charlie Kirk assassination attempt, ZDF correspondent in Washington Elmar Theveßen is facing massive criticism. Over the weekend, Trump's special envoy Richard Grenell weighed in and called for Theveßen's visa to be revoked."
The US is sounding more and more like Moscow. Cancelling a journalist's visa because of their reporting is a problem. I do not know what Elmar Theveßen said, but I asked and this is what a friend from my political book club told me.
"I researched. Theveßen's statements in questions are from Auslandsjournal (about Stephen Miller): he referred to Stephen Miller's book, and drew a connection between Miller's 'us' and 'them' theory and Third Reich ideology Carl Schmitt (writer, lawyer, political philosopher);
In political discussion show Markus Lanz (about Charlie Kirk): he called him a right-wing extremist, who called for the stoning of gay people. He later redacted/clarified his statement because Kirk didn't call for violence against homosexuals but cited a Bible section where this happened."
So, I see the parallels here too between the US and Russia. Taking a journalist's visa, and Theveßen is the White House Correspondent from one of the 2 largest Public television stations in Germany, where each household pays 18 € a month to support public television and radio so that it can be independent.
Not only is the Trump regime elevating White Supremacist ideas, but it is spreading them around the world. Musk is just awful. Here is him supporting White Supremacy in England.
🇬🇧This BBC story has a video showing the scale of the right wing rally in London. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwydezxl0xlo This Independent story focuses more on the involvement of Elon Musk with calls to sanction him, that I agree with. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-protests-tommy-robinson-march-live-musk-arrests-b2826464.html,
In Germany one can just be grateful that his elevating the AfD did not put them in first place in the Nordrhein Westfalen elections that were just had yesterday.
I think that I did just put this gross tendency into the category of "hypocrisy" instead of taking a broader viewpoint! Noah, this IS what fascists demand! It's why they say, "you just hate him", if I decry any policies trump wants to inact. If he or Charlie Kirk aren't lauded as a saint or a martyr, then I'm the cruel, insensitive, horrible person.
You have to wonder how long it will be before the MAGA fascists expand from merely taking away people's jobs (firing people) to what Hitler eventually did - disappearing them entirely. Putin has been doing that for a long time. His history of defenestrating officials has long been the punnishment for daring to oppose his edicts.
Bloody Chum in the water brings sharks. They will bite anything.
https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/bloody-chumimage.png